Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: We've got a Christmas themed thing. Deep. Think fast. Think Deeper is the whole podcast. Think Fast is this brief little snippet here at the end on the question of Santa Claus. And I know this has long been a question. I think even we've discussed it before, like, what are you gonna do with your kids with Santa Claus? For whatever reason, this year, it is a really hot topic with a lot of people, a lot of Christians.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: It's big on X right now.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And I've seen their substack. It's, it's going around. I've seen a couple things on Facebook. I think Texas Monthly, when I googled it, there was an article in the Atlantic. There was an article, like all these magazines and in publications.
Is it a lie to play Santa with your kids? Is it a lie to say, well, Santa's coming, he's gonna leave you presents, all that stuff? Is it wrong to do that for your kids?
[00:00:48] Speaker A: You know, I thought, well, there's pros and cons of doing it, not doing it. And with us, we, we kind of let the kids know pretty early on. Yeah, it's not a hundred.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: I was gonna say, Jack, you guys are not doing Santa Claus, right?
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like, but they're still kind of into it, so they talk about Santa even though it kind of comes back on to, yeah, there's not actually a guy Santa, but you're gonna get presents. And it's kind of, it's part of.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: The spirit of this.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: And so it's kind of a hybrid thing. And I think some people do that. But no, there's some people very much out saying it is a sin to, to tell your kids that Santa Claus is going to give them presents. So what do you guys think about that.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Will?
[00:01:22] Speaker B: I've got, yeah, I got a lot of thoughts.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Let me, let me start with. I, I understand the concern.
I understand the premise of, let's say a kid finds out at 9 years old that Santa Claus is not real. Well, that was nine years that they believed something that wasn't true.
You as their parents, again, I can understand people that say this. You as the parents kind of perpetuated that. Therefore you are guilty of lying to them.
My short and not very, you know, not very well worded take is that people just need to get a grip. Like it's really not that serious.
My longer take. So let me address first that there are people who will, who will try to say that you are going to lead your kids to question belief in God. If you do Santa Claus. I've heard that from quite a few people. Like, you'll teach them, you'll, you'll tell them Santa's real, they find out he's not, and then they'll get to the 15, 16 year old, get to be 15, 16 year old and basically say, okay, so is God not real either?
I understand that there are people that there are kids who have asked that question. My take on that has always been if you're, if your kid learns to equate Santa Claus with God, or if your kid's faith is going to be dependent on whether or not they did or didn't believe in Santa Claus, like, you've kind of got some bigger fish to fry. There's like, I don't think that's a fair thing to say. But I guess what I would ask, you know, I was being a little bit tongue in cheek with the get a grip thing. But like, I do think there is an element of, like, there are make believe things that we let kids believe.
There are make believe things that, that kids just kind of naturally, you know, play. And Matt Walsh had a great tweet about it.
Tweet that at least I thought was pretty great.
He said, young, young children think Batman is real. They think fairies and mermaids are real. I let my children believe all that stuff too. If my daughter tells me she saw a fairy in the garden, I don't say, no, you didn't. Fairies are fake. No, he says, I play along and say, you did. Awesome.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Where was it?
[00:03:25] Speaker B: He says the same kind of thing we do with Santa. And I had that kind of thought as well. Of like, do these people who say it's wrong to teach your kids about Santa every time the kid points, you know, says something about a unicorn or to Matt Walsh's point about a fairy, like, now, you know that's not real, right? Know, you know it's not real. You know, again, kind of the, the person who, you know, watches a fictional movie and, and spends the whole time telling you, now, you know this isn't real, right? You know this is fake, right? Like, nobody wants to be around that kind of person. And so I, again, I get what they're saying and I probably shouldn't have have been so dismissive of it, but I do feel like there is an element of, I don't know, fantasy. Like we, we need to be able to let our imagination run. And so, I don't know, I'm kind of throwing a lot of thoughts out there, but I, I don't see it. Near as harmful as. As so many people do. I grew up believing in Santa Claus. Never once did I question God when I found out Santa wasn't real. Never once did I blame my parents for lying to me. Like you to me. You engage in that with your children because there is some magic associated with it.
[00:04:23] Speaker C: There is.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: You know, again, kids believe Mickey Mouse is real, for goodness sakes. How many parents are telling them, hey, you know, Mickey Mouse isn't real?
So, yeah, that. That was ramble. Joe, what do you think?
[00:04:34] Speaker C: I don't know. I've had.
I had a Psychology Today article pulled up. The guys seems very, very anti Santa or lying to your kids. And.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: It just seems such a harsh word. And I know technically, I suppose it is. I would say it's almost righteous deception in a way, as weird as that sounds, where you are allowing your kids to indulge and engage in something that is magical, something that is.
[00:05:01] Speaker C: It's a lot of fun. And it's a way to give to your kids in a way that it's like, you don't have to have the kid thank Santa or thank you. It's like they just get to enjoy the gift and be doted on where it's. I don't know, there's something cool about that where my kids don't have to turn around. Thanks, mom and dad. Like, they're very grateful kids and they'll do that on the gifts that we give them. But just this idea that somebody's out there watching them, you know, watching out for them and taking care of them type of thing. Like, I like there's a warm and fuzzy element to it that, okay, sue me. You know, while you're lying to your kid, like, no, there's a level of allowing my kid to believe something that is inaccurate because, sure, it is playing into the fun. It's playing into the lighter side of life and allowing them to enjoy the unicorns, the fairies, Batman and Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy in the Easter Bunny and things like that. I don't have a problem with those things. For those kids that are scarred psychologically yet, that was kind of a millennial thing of like, I can't believe my parents lied to me.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: I was going to ask that.
[00:05:56] Speaker C: Like, it's such a millennial take.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: What does it say about you that you were traumatized? And I'm not trying. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh, but, like, what does it say about you that you were traumatized when you found out Santa Claus didn't exist? You know, like, there was a time.
[00:06:08] Speaker C: When imagination, I think, first off, was way more present than it is now. The other thing is there's a time when, like, I think kids needed to believe in something greater, you know, needed. And yes, God too, but, like, needed to believe that there's hope and there's joy and there, you know, somebody out there is, is taking care of them type of thing. Like, and then the cynicism sets in. And I think Gen X was very cynical, and I think the millennials kind of carried that cynicism of, we don't need that, you know, I want you to tell me the truth and authenticity becomes big and everything else. And it's like, yeah, but there's a level of letting kids be kids. And so, Jack, I am curious. You're. You're the. I'm a millennial too, technically, but just on the back end, you're a little more in that. And you are the one that. My kids firmly believe in Santa. And I'll tell them eventually, of course, but, um, you're not quite on the firmly to the other side for sure. But where do you fall on some of these things?
[00:06:56] Speaker A: There really is that, that irony with millennials that like, earnestness is looked as, as a bad thing, as a weakness, as a, oh, wow, look, you know, get a load of this guy kind of thing. And even down to, to. With children, I think there's kind of like a revisionist history of like, oh, wow, you idiot. You actually believed in that kind of thing. Like, yeah, because you're five years old, you know, like, it's harmless. Yeah, right. Well, and just again, innocence and earnestness. I mean, these are the same people that are playing with the toys that are meant for five year olds. Right? I mean, like, they, That's a great point. They don't have a sense of what a five year old is, especially when you don't have kids or whatever. And when you have kids, you see the wonder and all that. And so I think that's one of these. This is very hard to have this, this discussion legitimately because we are so saturated in cultural influences we don't even understand. Because I was trying to look up, like, how long has this been going on?
Best I could tell has been for at least a few hundred years that, like a couple hundred years that people have played it, oh, Santa's coming, you know, and I mean like that.
So this has gone on for a long time and nobody thought, oh, wow, we're, we're lying to it. And these are not impious People. These are not people who aren't or like, don't care about what God says. They just didn't think about it in these ways that we do. And it might be that we just take ourselves a little bit too seriously. I don't know. Now, about the thing the kids pretend. I do see a difference in parents telling the kid that. Parents letting the kid indulge their own thing. You know, like my little Gloria used to tell me, daddy, there's a rhino in my bedroom. And I go, you know, help her get the rhino out of her bedroom. There's no rhino imagination.
I didn't tell her, hey, there's a rhino in your bedroom. And really ham it up and really try and get her to believe it and, you know, keep telling her that. And so I can see a difference there. But still, I.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: But you played along with the. With the idea that there was a rhino in there. I think just like a lot of parents play along with Santa Claus.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: But I'm saying there's a difference between planting the idea and a child's imagination.
A child's imagination didn't come up with Santa. You know, like adults said, hey, here's this guy that's gonna come into our house, and you need to be good or he's gonna give you a bad present. And, you know, things like that. And so that I do see a difference there. But I don't know how to evaluate this again. Like, I don't know how to separate it from everything that we find ourselves in. And you never can separate it. But I'm saying, if you look back.
Yeah, and they were in their own culture, but for those couple hundred years that nobody was really asking this question any. I guess my way of putting it is this way, anything that in the last 10 years, we go, we figured it out, and everybody before us was stupid.
I always, like, hit the pause button for a second and take a look around.
[00:09:30] Speaker C: Well, and it's really tough to be lectured by the group that put Ronald McDonald to death. That every amount of whimsy. And I know we've talked about this before, but every amount of whimsy that we have in this culture, every. Every bit of fun that was just for kids. Every k. Only space is gone. Is gone. And you're going to lecture me on how to take care of my kids and on lying to your kids? It's because you can't treat kids as kids. You want to treat them as adults. And kids that are parentified want to be treated as though their parents and as Though they are adults. How dare they lie to me. It's like, no, you don't get to lecture me at all on kids because a, you're the generation that gave up on kids. You don't have kids or if you do, they're out of wedlock and it's a disaster. And I'm sorry I'm broad brushing here.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: But it's like the parenting styles.
[00:10:11] Speaker C: In the parenting style, your three year.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Old like a CEO.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:10:14] Speaker C: The gentle parenting and then getting rid of every kid only space, all the kid fun stuff and then commandeering all of that and making a bazillionth Marvel movie because you can't grow up yourself. Don't lecture me on me believing, having my kid believe in Santa. I'm sorry, it rings as pretty ridiculous.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Coming from Ronald McDonald died.
[00:10:34] Speaker C: I'm just saying they put, they put Ronald McDonald to death, basically.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Like the, the metaphorically.
[00:10:39] Speaker C: Well, that's why he has the hospital.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Sorry, never mind.
[00:10:45] Speaker C: Anyway, that's terrible. But no, the, the idea of like the fun of kids and they're bringing it back kind of whatever. But yeah, it's, it's, that's the point that I would get. And I agree with you that this is kind of a relatively new thing to question. The idea of Santa planting it.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't thought of that before. That it is kind of a new thing that people are starting to. And, and like you said, Jack, people are emphatic about it. Like there are, there, there are typically, there are not very many people who are like, I don't really think you should, but I don't really care. No people, if they lean that way, they're typically like, you know, you're basically a bold faced liar is kind of the way they describe.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Right. And somebody's going to come in and be like, well, my parents didn't do it back in 1970.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Broadly speaking. This was not a huge cultural conversation yet. We're. Yeah, there's always going to be the exception.
[00:11:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: I mean there's people around the world that haven't ever played Santa Claus. Like we can always find somebody. But these articles. Yeah. Calling it like a lie and deceiving your children and unchristian and all that like that. That is very new, I feel like.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Because you hear parents too, you'll hear people too that say, well, I want my kids to know, you know, that I'm the one that got them the presents and I'm not some random guy.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: It's like getting my credit yeah, exactly.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: It's like, okay, I know that's probably tongue in cheek at the same time. Like, I'm sorry, I would rather my 5 year old have a little bit of whimsy. I like that word. Like a little bit of, you know, it's, it's really dumb. But we haven't, we have an elf on the shelf here at our house and man, my kids love coming down the stairs and trying to find where the elf is. Right. And you know, what am I gonna say? Well, you know, I actually moved the elf last night. I'm the one that put it here. Like no, of course I'm not gonna do that. Right. But that's, yeah. So that's, it's a very, very interesting discussion, I will say.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I guess I didn't really come down on it anywhere, but I don't think you have to. But I, I, yeah, it's, it's very hard to, I don't know, the, the dogmaticness of it is very interesting to me. I don't know, I'm not there on that. I guess I'll say that much.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: I get the lies, you know, I get where they're coming from and saying you're lying to your kid. I just think from a psychological standpoint, allowing your kids the joy of, you know, believing in something that is like, I don't know, it's just a. And yeah, I guess you could say that's with God. But I think it's really healthy to foster a child's imagination as much as possible and let them, let them grow with it and they will soon meet the realities of life, of hey guess what? Those things cost money. And hey, guess what? You know, there's no Santa Claus. There's time and place for that. But I'm a big believer in letting kids be kids as long as they can. Because adulthood hits you man, upside the head. And the sooner it hits you, the usually the worse adjusted you are as an individual. You know, if you have to grow up at 7 years old and realize that the world is a lot harder than you thought it was, no 7 year old or 8 year old or 9 year old really needs to be dealing with that. They're kids, let them be kids. And Santa is a big part of kids imagination. It just represents childhood to me in so many ways of the joys and wonders of what life could be that will come crashing down. And I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but look man, you pay taxes and you start to realize, Mr.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Cynical has entered.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:47] Speaker C: Especially self employment tax. And you go, wow, life hit hard.
You know what? Let them be kids. So that's my take.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: You're of the mindset you can never do too much to make a kid child's Christmas magical. So anyway. All right, we're gonna get out of here for that one. Appreciate everyone that has listened this far into the full episode. As always, think fast if you're catching this. We did a full episode on what is the Church. So keep an eye out for that. Eye out for that on Monday.
And yeah, I think we're gonna wrap right there. Keep an eye out for the next episode and we'll talk to you on the next.
