Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Welcome in to Think Deeper podcast presented by FocusPress. Jack Wilkie here, joined by Will Harab and Joe Wilkie. We are coming up on episode number 250, so keep an eye out for that special one. In a couple of weeks. We are kicking around some ideas. I think we'll have a fun one for you there. But this time it's number 248.
And our topic this week is gluttony and the challenges of weight and things like that. So just to run down what we're going to talk about today, how widespread of a problem health issues are. Number two, what does the Bible have to say? Number three, a lot of considerations.
How do you know if you are a glutton? Is this a one time thing or is this an ongoing, is it a habitual thing? Is being overweight a sin or obese a sin?
What is reasonable to expect things like that, questions like that.
Then we're going to talk about some of the challenges that make this discussion a lot harder. And then we're going to talk about does this matter? Is this something that really Christians need to spend any time on? And then finally we're going to end with some practical helps, maybe just a few tips along the way that hopefully will help people be in a better place for this. So it's something that's come up because it's a popular topic online right now, which we're about to get into, but threw it out as a possible topic and these guys wanted to jump in. So I'm going to bring them in right now.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I would.
We actually did. We covered this back in June of 2022. I don't know if you guys remember this. We did. This was first year of Think Deeper. We did an episode entitled six Biblical Commands that Christians Forget.
And that was back. I guess we were having problems rambling back then because we gave ourselves eight minutes per topic and I think each of us were assigned a topic. If I remember right, I think we each had two and we covered it. But, but it's been several years and as we kind of get into this question of gluttony, this question of obesity, being overweight, if you are somebody listening who kind of your immediate gut reaction is, oh well, first of all, that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
I would encourage you to keep listening. All three of us would argue that it absolutely does matter and that it is. Not only does it matter, but that we should talk about it as well. That it is perfectly within bounds to talk about and to discuss and so I would. Again, I. There's a lot of people, Jack, as you saw with the article that you posted, that that is just the main take that they have as well. That doesn't really matter. So we're going to get into that.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Certainly.
[00:02:30] Speaker C: The other thing that I just want to say, kind of as we get started, is one of the things that is really, can really be frustrating for young people as they're growing up in the church is when certain questions and topics like this are kind of viewed as taboo, if that makes sense. Kind of. Kind of viewed as. Well, that's just. Man, that's. That's really out of bounds to discuss. We really shouldn't talk about our food consumption, people's weight and things like that. And I, I get the spirit of why people might say that. You know, it's. Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings or things like that. This very much is something that I do believe the Bible speaks about. All three of us would believe that the Bible speaks about that. There is certainly application from God's word about how Christians are to conduct ourselves.
It is one of the main staples of the Think Deeper podcast that Christ is lord over every aspect of our life. It is not just, man, let's just run the clock out until we can get to heaven. Let's just, man, just. We'll put up with whatever we got to put up with here on earth. And man, it's just all about it. Obviously, yes, we're pursuing heaven. We want, we are striving and we want to get to heaven. But Christ, you know, we. We were put here for a reason. Christ rules over, you know, this earth. Christ rules over our lives here on earth in every aspect. Our entertainment, our, you know, the, the, our service to others, our job, our vocation, our purpose in life. And we would argue he also rules over our food consumption as well. And so I say all that to say we're going to stand up here pretty strongly and say, this is not out of bounds. This is not a topic that, you know, we should just say, ah, it doesn't matter, let's move on, or, oh, we shouldn't talk about it. So, Joe, any introductory thoughts that you have to this topic of gluttony and kind of overeating?
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. I think you. You both introduce it very well. It's a touchy subject. We understand that. We understand we're wading into some things that, look, I'm going to be honest, you know, in any church, Christ gathering, you see, of Of a, you know, of any number of people, a massive people, like, yeah, this is a problem. And if I'm called a jerk for saying that, sorry, so be it. Like, you can look around and from the places that we've been, from the places we've been inv. Things along those lines, look, it is just an issue in our culture as a whole, but it's also an issue within the church and we can look at that and we could say, don't judge people. Is this really, you know, to alter your guys questions like, is this of concern? Do we really need to be spending time on things like this?
Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. We want health across the board, obviously. We want to be healthy mentally, we want to be healthy emotionally. We most certainly want to be healthy spiritually. You know, we talk about that all the time on this podcast and I think physical goes along with that. And the physical is often a manifestation of what's going on internally. The way we present ourselves. It's the same as if a guy walked in and was consistently like disheveled, greasy hair, didn't take care of himself. We're not looking at him as like, wow, you're. You're awful person. But we are going, what's going on? What's going on behind the scenes? You're presenting yourself as something of what's going on internally. You're not taking care of yourself. What's happening that's speaking to underlying issues that I think need to be processed through. I'm a therapist. I understand a lot of the underlying processing and traumas and, you know, people getting made fun of and the reasons why we might do those things.
It doesn't make it okay. I work with addicts all the time. I understand why they do it. That doesn't mean that the addiction is justified or that the addiction is right.
And so in when we come to the being addicted to food, when we come to things along these lines, people get very, very squirrely.
We're not looking to hurt anybody's feelings. We are looking to just have a good biblical discussion surrounding these things. And so, Jack, I want to. I want to go back to where this really kicked off recently online. As you said, very big deal.
Just in the Christian, if you're not super familiar. It did make its way to Facebook to some degree from what I saw, but a lot on X going around, specifically regarding Pastor Doug Wilson up in Moscow, Idaho, Idaho and his church up there.
He does his Ask Doug little podcast thing, his video series on YouTube, which by and large he's got some, you know, some interesting and compelling videos. Well, somebody submitted a question and so, Jack, get us into that and kind of how this has exploded from there.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah, the prompt. The question itself was pretty interesting. It was worded as, what exactly is the sin of gluttony? And are my two eyes all I need to know that someone has committed it?
And so, pretty straightforward question, obviously, asking about weight and can you just look at someone and know that they are a glutton? And so Wilson gave his answer and we're going to talk about some of this a little bit. In fact, we'll just go ahead right into it.
The Greek and Hebrew words, they're.
It's been translated glutton. We know what glutton is in English.
It's the base word is frivolous. But it also has this meaning of the belly, the appetite. It's just kind of.
You're run by that, you know, that that's what's in charge of you. And so the basic word is that of just somebody who just keeps feeding their belly. There were. There was the gluttonous kind of party scene of the first century.
And so when Jesus was said, he's a friend of gluttons and drunkards, it was people that got together, drank, I mean, just tons of alcohol, ate as much food as they could to the point of they were throwing up. And so there was that kind of gluttony. And that's not really something people do anymore. And so the question is, does this still apply to overeating, to having a junk food habit, to, as the guy was kind of asking, to being overweight and is, again, is it a sin that we can still commit? I think is one of the questions that comes up. I would say absolutely. Now, the specifics. No, we can't. We don't party like the Greeks did or the Romans did, whatever, okay? But that doesn't mean the principle of self control in what you eat is not there. And so that's kind of my take on it, that gluttony is still something that can be committed.
Do you guys have anything to add? Any thoughts, any changes on that? Any pushback?
[00:08:32] Speaker C: I think the, the common thread, you know, and obviously this is not the specific, you know, definition for, you know, the word gluttony, but essentially it's out of control, out of control. Eating out of control.
Obviously, back then, with what you're talking about, Jack, the. The alcohol was flowing, it was out of control. There was no temperance, There was no, you know, kind of taking it easy, like it was just out of control. Eating was the same, they were just feast and then just feast and feast and feast. And so that question of does that still apply to us today from you know, as far as gluttony goes?
I would say yeah, I would say, you know, obviously the, the feasting, not necessarily, but the out of control, undisciplined kind of just constant pursuit of food and you know, satisfying your, your taste buds, taste and sweet things, etc.
I would say yes, I would say that that absolutely applies. We're going to get into self control, we're going to get into self discipline.
But that, that would just, just to kind of add to kind of the definition side of things as we're kind of planting our flag on. Yes, we do believe that it's, it's still very much could be something that Christians struggle with today. It's just in a different form. You know, you think about how much easier the access is to not just really bad food, but a lot of food. Like back then I made the point off air that gluttony was kind of reserved for the rich people because they were the ones that could afford to have the feasts, right? They were the ones that could afford to sit at the banquet tables and to just, you know, stuff themselves with, with food and alcohol.
That is no longer the case that you have to be. In fact, typically, you'll see those who are generally on the, the poorer end of the spectrum can be, you know, have better access sometimes to food that's just really, really bad for you. And so yeah, it's just the outta control, undisciplined, but I think the access to it. I don't know how much time I wanna spend on that, Joe, before you go, but like just, just the access to it, I mean drive, drive throughs grocery stores, gas stations, you could pick up, you know, candy and chips for $50 and you know, stuff like that just makes it to where I do think, even though it takes a different form now than it did thousands of years ago, that potential for undisciplined outta control eating and pursuit of that absolutely still applies.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree, I agree.
I understand where people are coming from with the crazy feast. Yes, the out of control of saying, man, it's really not the same. Because what they do is they would stuff themselves and stuff themselves and stuff themselves. They throw it all up and then they go back and they stuff themselves and stuff themselves. Now we do have modern day bulimics, right? The bulimia is a Disorder, an eating disorder, where that does take place, where people will stuff themselves, gorge themselves, and then, you know, they will expel that and throw it up. And so there is that case. It's seen as a mental disorder for a reason. That was not the case then. It wasn't a mental thing. It was a. This is what we did at our party. So when people look at it and they go, well, we're not doing that these days when we're eating overeating at Thanksgiving or whatever it is, we'll get to that too. You know, I don't think that's wrong. But when we're overeating at Thanksgiving, we're not looking to do those levels of feasts.
But it's the same as, like, you know, Paul in First Corinthians is talking a lot about temple prostitution.
We don't have to have a one for one temple prostitution to say, first off, prostitution still exists and is wrong. But second off, general principles regarding sexuality and things along those lines, well, it doesn't really apply today because it's just a difference. Like.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: Like we have concept that's still just correct.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: It's the same concept. Even though it's not a temple prostitute. They're technically going to. So I think it's the same concept of gluttony that very much exists today. It's just. I think it's a lot harder and to your point, Will. Cause I was talking to Jack about this at the gym this morning. Like, the idea of a very overweight person hardly exists. You had like Eglon, King Eglon. Right. Like they did exist, but.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: But it was so significant that they actually described him that way.
It was like defining characteristic of him. Yeah, right.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: This is an abomination. This is what in the world's going on here. And Ehud goes and kills him. Right? So, like, for the almost 5,900 years of human history, if you want to say 6,000 years, like what we see today in America did not exist.
Occasionally you'd see somebody, you look back, sorry, and I know we'll move on. But like, you look back at the. The freak show circuses that they used to have.
The world's heaviest man. And it's like, what? I think we saw that guy at the DMV yesterday. You know what I mean? Like, and yet he was the world's heaviest man back then. And it was like people couldn't believe how fat he was, right? And looking at it like, this is the way of it now. So it's something at Some point, things change, there's reasons for that and all sorts of stuff we get into. But yeah, so to wrap up. Yeah. As this first point, yes, it is a problem not just for the world, it's problems for Christians as well.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: So that does raise a question of there's a place for feasting, there is a place for Thanksgiving, you're going to eat bigger Christmas, things like that. I think Will's point is well said of the fact that it's every day, all the time, you can do this just over and over and over and over and over and not even think about it. That's where the problem comes in. And so nobody's saying you can't go out to eat and have a big old meal here and there. Nobody's saying you can't sit down and have a Thanksgiving meal or a birthday meal or whatever, whatever it may be.
It really is. And I guess that goes to some of the other questions we have on the outline.
Is it a one time thing is gluttony is like, oh man, I was a glutton last night or is this habitual? And I would say it's more habitual. It is more of something I think you can, you know, one night like, man, you got a little carried away last night. You went and I think we all could say I do that from time to time and you feel bad the next day and you're like, why did I eat that much and just keep going back for more and I should have stopped and I feel terrible.
Okay, that's not great.
It is when it becomes that you're regularly A eating stuff that's just really bad for you, but B, overdoing it. And to the original question at the start of all this, one of the things that's gonna show you that is the scale is over time, you're not, your body is not able to handle everything that you are giving it.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: So this is the, this is the tricky part. I'll go ahead and bring this up now because we're talking about food that you know is bad for you or whatever. If I'm somebody that would try to argue, hey, we really shouldn't discuss this. Not really any room to make any legislation on this. One of the things that I would point out is that for the most part everything that you get to some extent, unless you are literally growing it yourself, which more power to those who are able to do that, that's not most people.
Unless you're doing that pretty much everything that you could eat, enjoy, has something that Is to some degree unhealthy for you.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:28] Speaker C: My wife and I have, you know, really committed to try to getting ridding our house and reading our kids diets of food. Dyes and seed oils are kind of the two big ones.
First of all, we're not perfect at that. But then second of all, find a product that doesn't have either one of those things. Oh, well, it's got, you know, sucralose in it or something. You know, like, it almost seems like there's a never ending, you know, list of things where it's like, okay, well that's bad for you. Okay, well, it doesn't have this, but it does have this. And so if I was just trying to steal man. The other side of basically saying, I don't really know that we could legislate this is because to some degree, basically everything you eat is going to have some varying degree of something that's not good for you. So, Jack, I guess I would direct that back to you to ask what your response would be to that idea.
Now, I think the pretty easy answer is that there are varying degrees for a reason. And obviously a donut is a little bit more heavier degree than maybe something that's got a bad kind of oil or something.
And that's also not to get too granular here on the types of food to eat. But I do think it's an important question to ask when we talk about. Okay, if we're going to try to have a reasonable discussion about what should we putting in our bodies. Because you'll hear that with the, you know, you shouldn't smoke because your body's a temple. Right. Well, Cokes are pretty bad for you too. You know, what's the difference there? You'll hear people argue or, you know, fast food cheeseburgers or stuff. So, Jack, any thoughts on kind of that the varying degrees of unhealth, unhealthy food that we ingest constantly.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Then that's going to be some of what we get to in the practical part, towards the end, hopefully, if time permits.
It's.
It's not.
Perfection is not the point here. And I think that's one of the, as you're saying, one of the reasons why people just kind of throw their hands up about this whole thing and be like, oh, what are you gonna do? You know, it's. You're never gonna be perfect, therefore, that I, I really think in any time you start looking at healthy eating, healthy, you know, diets or weight loss plans or fitness plans or whatever, across the board, I've read a lot of them. A lot of them will come back to an 8020 principle. 80% of the time, you need to be eating something healthy that you can feel good about because, you know it's a good thing for you to eat 20% of the time. Yeah. Like, because you probably aren't gonna be 100%. There is gonna be a time where you're out or it's your wife's birthday or it's Thanksgiving or whatever. Okay. But I think a lot of times the numbers are flipped, and that's why you end up with the obesity numbers we have. I think it was 30% of Americans are.
Well, I think it's 70% are overweight, 30% are obese.
That's a lot of people. And so if, you know, when you look at that, you can see the problem.
People will get very in the weeds of, like, well, how perfect do I have to eat? I don't know, try for the 80, 20 thing. But on the other hand, this also is a pretty solid indicator of. We need to do some. Some more work on this.
[00:18:29] Speaker C: Well, and, and can I just say real fast on that again, for all the people, they're like, man, who are you to say the fruit of, like, the results or the fruit of what you do?
There's a reason that it's visible, and we shouldn't have to. We shouldn't be bullied into ignoring that.
One of the examples I always give is, like, if you're a.
A family who, you know, husband and wife who raised faithful children, that is evidence that you were a really, really good parent. If you had, you know, four or five, six children, raised them all to be faithful Christian.
That is something that you should be able to point to, and not in an arrogant, boastful, braggadocious way, but that should speak very highly of the type of parent that you are.
You know, there's. There's other examples, of course, of, you know, things that you can just kind of look at and see this person, you know, this is evidence that this person is X, Y, Z, physical appearance. And we're going to have to give the qualifiers. Obviously, there are people with medical conditions. There are. There are exceptions to this rule.
Don't be the, you know, don't do the shopping cart thing where when you say, hey, you need to take the shopping cart back when you're done. Well, I've got seven children. Do I have to take the shopping cart back or I can't walk? Like, we're not talking about you okay. Not talking about those people for the most part, your physical appearance very much is an indicator of the way that you carry yourself or of the way that you, you know, basically the, the way that you present yourself, your habits are an indicator of the type of person that you are. Right. And so I just want to say that to kind of piggyback off of what Jack was saying is like we shouldn't have to ignore that. If you've got a very clear picture again of the, the of the husband and wife who've raised faithful kids, you should be able to look at that and say that's, that's really cool. That is a piece of evidence to the fact that they're really good Christian parents.
Similarly, with our scales and, and with our physical appearance, like you should be able to look at somebody go, that person takes good care of themselves. That person so should be kind of obvious. But I feel like once again in our society where three years ago there were what do they call them, plus size models on the COVID of Nike and you know, like that was what was being advertised, was basically the Lizzo was, was kind of the, the biggest person in pop culture who is in your body positivity movement is what that's called.
That's since died way down and companies have returned to putting normal sized people on, on ads and stuff like that. But the point is like we shouldn't have to be bullied into ignoring what we see with our own two eyes, the fruits of people's labor or lack thereof, so to speak. Any thoughts on that? Joe
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[00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah, going back to the initial like is it a one time thing? I think this all kind of ties in on what you're talking about.
I don't think that it is a one time thing because I think it's speaking to a bigger underlying heart issue of a self control problem. And what are you allowing to fulfill you? What are you running to, to, you know, to meet the underlying needs that you have. Are you running to Christ? Are you running to other people? Are you running to, you know, to positive things in your life? Or are you allowing food the same way a lot of people allow porn or whatever else? Are you allowing those things to be master over you and to fulfill all the deeper darker needs that you're not willing to really bring into the light and allowing other people to fill for you? So to me, that's why a one time God created taste buds for a reason.
Sorry, like the people that deny themselves kind of the stoic, like, oh well, I'm not going to eat anything sweet type of thing. Like, I'm sorry, but God gave taste buds for a reason. Now it wasn't intended to be taken over by all of the craziness that we have these days, but as somebody who, you know, has, has definitely struggled on the food end of things.
We all know internally when we've been mastered by food. In my opinion. I think it's a. We know to your point, Will, I think we can know externally to some degree.
I think we know indicator.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: You think, Joe, mentally, like if you're talking not on the physical scale into things, but like you say, we all.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: Personally, I think there's a level of guilt. I think there's a level of guilt, and I'm speaking for myself, but also for other people I've talked with. I think there is a level of guilt that a lot of people will try to drown out. Sometimes we drown it out through food, drown it out in other ways. But a level of guilt of like, I know I've gone too far. I know that this is not good for me. I know that, you know, I probably shouldn't. You'll hear that in phrase, oh, I shouldn't, but I'm going to, you know, I shouldn't have my six Krispy Kreme, but here it is, like we make a joke out of it. This is why, you know, there's a lot of comedy that goes along with, you know, overweight. I think we end up trivializing and making a joke out of it to try to take the sting away from those things. But I personally believe I know when I have been gluttonous in my life. I know when I look back and it's like I'm shameful of that. There are moments. Does that mean that I have always been or does that mean it was a one time thing? No, I think there was moments in my life by moments being like time Periods, I should say maybe would be the better phrase where I have been mastered by food. I have really had a lot of my thoughts run back to food. I've had, you know, when I've been down and out, long day, I run to food. I wake up in the morning, I run to food. I'm stressed about work, I run to food. I want to go do something fun with Alyssa. I run to food. And food becomes the linchpin for so much of my life and what I'm doing. And it takes up a lot of my thoughts and time. And it almost becomes like a, you know, a lustful thing in my eyes that are in my mind. That is where I think gluttony starts to really come into it. So eating a lot on a Thanksgiving Day. No, no, we're not talking about that. But if that is a consistent pattern, you find that self control is wrong. Or you start to feel that little Jiminy Cricket kind of internally, which would be the Holy Spirit, of course, this feeling, this like, ooh, man, I probably shouldn't go that far. We just silence it so much because we're not used to listening to it. If we really sat in some of this and just felt like, am I really in a good place with God concerning my food? I think we would internally. I don't know how you guys feel about that, what your thoughts are, but I think we would internally have some concept.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I think kind of. But on the other hand, it's very easy to develop normalcy bias with this. And that's where the excuses start coming in and the. Well, I just. I am this way and, well, I don't do anything different than that healthy person. It's just my metabolism. Because that's what Wilson's conclusion was, was. Well, it's just my bad metabolism is why it's okay for me to be overweight because I have a bad metabolism. Things like that just happen.
That's where people end up as a way to. And maybe that makes your point that they're overriding that metabolism.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Right. They're coping with what they don't write. You wouldn't have to justify it if you felt good about it, is what I'm saying.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's something worth listening to. Now back to Will's point about the external look.
That's one where I would say it's like the modesty issue. There is obvious safe area where you're like, okay, that's a healthy person. There's obvious unsafe where it's like, okay, that's not good. That is a heart disease risk. That's a diabetes risk. That's all these other things.
Basically because of the kind of foods Will was talking about. If you look around stores and everything, just about everybody's carrying a few pounds extra at this point, whether it's 10, 15, 20. You know, they're not like, morbidly obese. They're not way overweight or anything like that, but there is a little bit. And so I guess that's the next thing to address is like, what are we talking about when we say the visible effects of gluttony? I think one of them would be a continuing increase, but a lot of people just settle at carrying a little bit extra. The spare tire, they call it, and things like that. I would say that's not.
With all of this. Everyone just kind of accepts a level of inevitability. I don't think that needs to be the case. And I think that's part of this, is realizing you can impact this.
That's one of the weird things about me, about this discussion, to me, is where people talk about it as if, though there's just nothing you can do. Well, I have a bad metabolism. They have a good metabolism. And.
Okay. I mean, some people have a good metabolism and get away with eating like garbage for years and years and years. It just genetics, whatever it is that led to that. That's how it worked out for them.
Even that is not great. Like, that's. That's not healthy. Skinny fat is very much a thing.
But in general, I would say there's the. The one where it's like, okay, you have to do something about this. There's the others. It's like, well, it's something to work on and kind of keep in check. A little bit would be my take on the. The mileage. I mean, there's. I. I'm. I've got a few I'd like to lose in the act of doing. Actually, right now, it's.
But some people will look at that as like, oh, you're getting obsessed with it. You're always thinking about your weight and can't. Right. Like, there is a window that's just kind of like, you might be a little low, you might be a little high, but.
And this is one of the problems. It didn't used to be this way where people had to worry about this. You look at yearbooks, you look at pictures from the 50s, 60s, like, pretty much everyone looked about the same. It was pretty rare for people to be outside of that Window. Now you do have to keep it in check.
[00:27:54] Speaker C: I think what this comes down to, because I can hear, you know, people listening saying, man sure are talking a lot about physical appearance. And you know, physical appearance is not going to get you into heaven. And you know, does this stuff really matter? I think what we have to answer is everywhere the New Testament talks about self control.
Does that apply to food?
I think we can obviously say, you know, that is going to apply to, you know, lust. Second Timothy 2 comes to mind, you know, being self control when it comes to, you know, lust and avoiding temptation in that way, sexual sin, self control with our tongue as well. You know, James talks a lot about that. But to me, when, when Paul specifically talks about self control, it's, it's fairly generic. There's not one specific area that he's talking about. First Corinthians 9 is one of my favorite passages where he talks about he disciplines his body, brings into subjection less when he preached others, becomes disqualified. Talking about running the race and essentially disciplining himself to where we can win the race. Right. He's not talking about a literal race. He's talking about the Christian race. There obviously we know Galatians 5 talks about the fruit of the spirit of self control.
So we see that self control is one of the Christian virtues from second Peter chapter one.
So I think what we just have to answer is, does that include, you know, food? And what's interesting about this, as members, all three of us are members of non alcohol families. That's not something we indulge in, nor smoking, nor vaping. What is the vi as most Christians are, what is the vice quote unquote that most Christians are going to engage in with regards to what we put in our body? It's probably not going to be alcohol, probably not going to be smoking, probably not going to be vaping. It is going to be food. Right? And so if we're going to talk about self control, yes, applies to us, yes, applies to our tongue and avoiding, you know, maybe certain behaviors.
I think you'd have a pretty, you'd have a hard time making a case that what we put into our bodies was outside of the box of things that Paul was talking about when he taught. When he lists self control in Galatians 5 or Peter and in second Peter 1, you know, verse 5, and you can say, well, that's conjecture. I suppose it is. But again, I just think that's a tough case to make to try to say, well, he's not talking about that, you know, Because I think they would obviously argue. He. They are talking about, they are talking about that with things like alcohol or things like that that you put in your body.
Why can't that, why wouldn't that be referring to food as well? So the self control angle to me is, Is key here in this discussion.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I don't see how it couldn't be referencing food, you know, or why it wouldn't be referencing food. The difficult discussion, referencing food. Right, right. At least include. Yeah, like the difficulty with the food discussion is the fact that it is a, a biological need. You do need food. It's. It's kind of the same. You don't actually need sex. But it's a very similar thing of like our body is drawn toward that.
And interestingly those two things are tied together. Food and sex addiction are very common together.
And one of the reasons why is they're both silent. You can kind of do it on your own. And there's not any obvious signs until there is. Right? Until you're just massively overweight. Like there's not a whole lot of obvious signs. Whereas if you're getting drunk all the time. Yeah, people are gonna know. If you're getting high all the time, people are gonna know. They won't. Ne. Don't necessarily know your relationship with food, which makes it particularly dangerous on the self control because so often there's not a whole lot of like external factors. Once again, until there are. But going to that First Corinthians passage, if you go to 1 Corinthians 6, verse 12, I believe Paul talks about not being mastered by anything. And throughout the book, Paul's talking about treating our body. He talks about it in chapter three, talks it again in the sexual context, but talks about it again in chapter six of Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
So when we think about being overweight, I'm not saying the Holy Spirit can't dwell on that or anything like that. I'm just saying he's making the case that the body actually is really important. We can be very gnostic about it and say that that's not the case. But I think Paul is showing to your point, Will. Self control is tied into how we treat our bodies. Are we taking care of our bodies and doing the things that. The same way that, like getting STDs would not be taking care of our body, you know, because that matters, right? It matters how we're preserving this, this vessel for the Holy Spirit.
I think it goes along with this. But Jack, you had Brought up a couple questions I wanted to go back to real fast.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: First off, I think we have to so. Well, let's go back to those. I do want to put a pin in the.
This isn't even on the outline, but the church's avoidance of it. I think we need to spend more time on that. So go back to the other ones. And then let's come back to the church's avoidance of it.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: Well, okay, first off, can thin people be gluttonous? Because as you talk about the skinny fat, you talk about, like, thin people. I think that's an interesting one. And just to clarify for those listening, is being overweight a sin? Because that is the big kind of the looming question over some of this is we're going to have people that. No, we're not looking to shame people.
That's not the point of this podcast is ashamed people, per se. You know, that's not what we're trying to do. The point is, if it makes you feel a little guiltier to say, I need to probably do something about it. But I think those are valid questions. Let's start on the skinny side of things. Can a skinny person be gluttonous? When you talk about the skinny fat and things along those lines.
Yeah. What are your thoughts? Is this just the overweight we're talking about?
[00:33:06] Speaker B: I think they can. And I think if they are just eating a terrible diet and they've just got the good luck that it's not catching up to them externally, it's not something that's visible. And so this is a sin that can be visible, but it's not always visible. And so that complicates this discussion a little bit. But, you know, there are people who drop dead of a heart attack because they've just eaten nothing but McDonald's every day. And it just didn't catch up to it. Like it didn't show on the outside, you know, and there's just. There's costs of eating poorly and overeating and, you know, indulging in junk all the time. And so. Yeah, I would say yes to that one.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I would agree. Not much to add. I think Jack covered that. Well.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: If you're eating Big Macs every day, do you think that, does that go like, what is the difference between gluttony and just unhealthy choices? Because that's kind of what we're getting at as well here is, is it gluttonous to have a Big Mac every day? Well, no. You have the guy that did that you know, for like since the 70s or whatever. And he's actually really healthy. He's doing fine. You know, drinks like a Dr. Pepper and a Big Mac every single day and his medium fries. And he's done it every single day other than like his wedding day, I think. And he's very healthy. So do I think that's a great choice? Absolutely not. On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily call it gluttonous.
[00:34:19] Speaker C: So that's the problem with my. Well, it's nuance definition, which I would still stand behind of like the out of or use it out of control pursuit of food.
How many people are going to say, oh yeah, I'm out of control. I'm going to raise my hand like, no, Most people are going to say, you know, yo, I'm, I'm in control. You know, I might go through six drive throughs a week. But no, I mean, it's. If you ask somebody, I've been doing this where I'll ask people, are they, you know, do you, would you say you're a glass half full or a glass half empty person? Guess how many people have said, oh, I'm a glass half empty person? Zero. Everybody says they're glass half full. Right? Everybody, you know, says that they're.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: They're glass.
[00:34:52] Speaker C: I was gonna say, okay, well, you gu. Break the trend, I guess. I've been asking all kind of people and I have yet to have somebody just say, yeah, no, I'm a blendy person. My point is, like with the, with my definition of the out of control, undisciplined pursuit of food, not many people are going to say, you know, admit to the, the fact that that's their problem. So that's, that's the struggle with, with, with, you know, that kind of concept.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: So is being overweight a sin?
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Hey folks, you've probably heard us talk about Focus plus and the Deep End. If you're wondering what that is. Focus plus is our subscription service available through Patreon. Every week, members get all kinds of Christian content for your walk, including daily devotionals, a sermon of the week, and our understudied teaching series, which Joe and I lead through obscure and less covered books of the Bible like Leviticus and Revelation. We also have the Deep End, of course, which is our bonus segment exclusively for Think Deeper listeners, where you can submit your comments on an episode and we will respond and have a bit of a Q and A each and every week. That drops every Friday. So if you're interested and want to know more Check that out. Go to patreon.com and search focuspress or go to focuspress.org/.
That's where what I was getting at with like the gray area of like at a certain point. Yes, at a certain point it's an obvious. Yes. Like at a certain point, what would you say is. Yeah, because like carrying an extra, you know, five or ten. I mean, like that even, that is arbitrary. Like, can you even say it's extra? Who sets when it's an extra 40 to 50 to 60. Like all of a sudden it starts getting. Yeah. Noticeable. And it like that reflects a pattern that reflects, say you didn't overeat one time or you've been a little busy lately to kind of keep an eye on it or get out and move around and things like that. And so you've, you've grabbed a few extra. I mean, there are people who do like the animal thing of like gain an extra 10 in the winter and then lose it in the summer naturally. Like. And so that kind of thing is not what we're talking about. It is a long term overdoing. And if that sounds crazy to somebody, I would say, how many times you hear somebody say that smoking is a sin? A lot of people will tell you smoking is a sin because I don't think drunkenness is a good comparison because of the impairment of the brain and all that. That's the issue. Smoking is the perfect one. And it's that something you do for your enjoyment, an addiction, a habit or whatever, that will take a serious toll on your health. And a lot of people will tell you that's a sin. That's an easy one to pick on because not that many people smoke anymore.
[00:37:16] Speaker C: Right.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Or maybe adults.
Yeah. And so we'll take a strong stand on that. It's like, well, if you can take the strong stand on this, by the same token, you need to do it for this one. So that's my.
Again, it is a gray area. At what point it becomes a sin? You can't be like, you know, watch somebody scale and be like, all right, today, it's a sin. It doesn't work that way. And I think people want that black and white. But it's not always that clean.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: I think it's a mindset, I think it's a trajectory. I think it's a, you know, hey, I'm not happy with where I am and I am hitting the gym and I am going to try to. Now, you may be way overweight, but your goal is I need to come Down a little bit, you know. Okay, well, great. I don't think that's the sin. It is those that are consistently indulging in, once again, overthinking about food, overeating every chance they get. And even if they're not overeating, like the choices that they make, they're putting zero time and effort to help themselves to be healthier for their kids, to be healthier for those around them and are being mastered by food. I think that's the key is going back to Paul's point of don't be mastered by anything. I think we would know if we're really honest with ourselves. And maybe, Jack, to your point, maybe we wouldn't. I don't know, we delude ourselves a lot. But like, I have been mastered by this at some point. Well, where is the line? Is that £300?
[00:38:26] Speaker C: And do you think you were in sin? That's the tough thing. Like, do you think you were, you know, to not to get all, you know, too black and white, but, like, separated from God when, when you were in your times of life where you were mastered by it? Like, that's where it's really difficult to say, you know, like, because. And that's the problem with constantly looking for, oh, is it a sin? Is it a sin? Is it a sin?
Because the parallel, you know, a parallel you could make here is. Or, you know, can you be gluttonous in other areas? Can you be mad? Obviously you can be mastered. I think people can be mastered by social media.
I think people can be mastered by, you know, obsessive entertainment, watching too much tv, mastered by sports. Right? There's the news.
At what point is that a sin? You know, at what point are they separated from God, to use that terminology? And obviously that's not just the lens through which we need to see everything. But I don't know, I agree with Jack that it can be. I'm a little bit, I guess maybe just less confident in being able to take a firm stance on when it would be just due to that fact of, like, obviously there's things that all of us can be mastered by. I think there are. Again, not to. As, you know, I just said this, but I think there are thousands of Christians that are mastered by social media and that are mastered by things like that entertainment. And are they separated from God? Are they living in sin?
Maybe, maybe not. That's a tough question.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I don't know. Like, as far as sanctification goes, there are those sins that are dragging you down. They're not separating you from God. They're forgiven. There's grace for them, but it's better to get rid of them. And so the social media addiction. In my article I wrote about, like, the impatient. The guy who's impatient with his kids, the woman who's a gossip with her friends.
That's not good. And people will say, well, this is just like that. And it's like, yeah, we need all of these people to be working in a better direction. And it doesn't get. It doesn't get better overnight. You can't lose £50 overnight. You can't, you know, fix all of your bad habits overnight. It doesn't work that way. But acknowledging it and working in that direction is important.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: I think the difficulty on saying tying it to weight, like, it being overweight of sin and not the action itself is like, that's the outward manifestation. The same way, like, if you had lung cancer from smoking, let's use smoking again.
Is having lung cancer a sin? Well, no, it's the outward manifestation of, clearly, you've gone way too far with something you weren't supposed to go. And so can you come back? Like, can you cut smoking out today and be perfectly fine? You. Yes, you can, but you're still gonna have lung cancer. Can you cut out all of the gluttony and still be overweight today? Yeah, but it. Obviously, it'll come down. Like, I think that's the goal is to be working on it. And so I think it's. And like I said, I don't know. I'd call it, as I said earlier, a mindset. I don't know if it's the mindset. I don't know if it's the. It's the action itself. But that action will consistently, like, you will be growing in weight or maintaining that weight if you're not actively looking to take that off. And so what you're getting at, Jack, is the nitty gritty. And that is really the point of, like, okay, you're not gluttonous all the time, but you're also not. It. It's the gray. It. It's the, like, status quo. I have 200 pounds extra that I don't need, but I'm not gaining it. I'm not growing, but I'm also not losing it. I'm not working toward it. I'm just at homeostasis. So my, you know, my calorie deficit's 5,000 calories a day, and I hit it. I'm not hitting 7,000 calories. I'm hitting 5,000 calories. Like, is it wrong to be in that state? And I think that's really the question you're hitting at, which is at some point, yeah, we're not pursuing sanctification. That's a great way of looking at that, of not pursuing. So it comes around though, to the question that you asked earlier that you put a pin in.
If this is a matter of sanctification, if this is something that we should, I think we should take seriously. I think we have people dying early. We have families that are. Can be wrecked by this and kids that are, you know, the, the statistics you had this in your article are twice as likely, 1.98 or something, but twice as likely to be obese and to have all these health issues. It costs like a significant amount per year. More. There's so many negative.
Why is the church not talking about this?
[00:42:24] Speaker B: I think it's uncomfortable, number one. I mean, as we, when I wrote on this, people do the. You shouldn't be talking about this kind of thing. It's very personal. Right. And it hits close to home. But that, that to me is why you should talk about it, is this is a problem in our pews. It's.
You go to one of the big conferences or whatever. It's. It's not a secret that it's a problem. It's not a secret. That's a problem among the preachers. It's not.
It's an open secret. Right. And it bothers me when we can take a really bold stance on something our people don't. I mean, the people who will just come out and breathe fire against alcohol all of a sudden get squirrely when we start talking about gluttony and overeating.
You probably don't have anyone, or if you do, one or two people who have the problem with alcohol in your congregation, you might have 80 of them that have an overeating problem.
So we're just going to talk about. We're going to really get up there and pat ourselves on the back for going after what I call the faraway sins and leave the nearby ones alone. And so I think that's part of it. I think there's a gnostic problem, which we'll talk about here in a little bit of the body doesn't matter. But I think the biggest thing is it is something that we deal with and you're going to get some backlash if you talk about it.
[00:43:43] Speaker C: Yeah, obviously I agree with that. The, the uncomfortable nature of it. The.
It's emotionally charged because, you know, it's something that can so easily people can take personally and take offense to, and so it's just easier not to touch. I think the other thing about it is because let's say you were going to preach a sermon on, on something like this.
One of the things that I'm really big on, you know, when I, when I preach, especially when I'm trying to make application, is to kind of avoid just saying generic stuff and giving actual specific practical applications. You know, I used to hate it whenever I would hear, you know, a lesson on modesty. And point number one, two, three and four was always, modesty is an issue of the heart. It's not about clothing. And they would never, never give any kind of practical, like, well, here's what being modest actually is, right?
And.
And so I kind of made a resolve in my preaching and teaching to everywhere that I could try to be a little more specific than that. If I'm going to talk about being a, you know, good parent, what does a good parent do? Specifically? What do they do? If I'm going to talk about, you know, modesty, you know, what is, what does that look like, that kind of thing?
With this one, I do think it's harder with. I mean, because you think about, we've been going for 45 minutes and we've had a hard time giving super specific. You can't give a specific weight. You can't even really give a specific. Avoid this kind of food. You know, we can kind of say, okay, you know, don't go through the drive through three times a week. But even then, like, again, very arbitrary. And so the, the inability for us to get super, like, we kind of have to keep it generic. You kind of have to keep it within the realm of making sure that you are, you know, just kind of moving in the right direction, that you are, you know, really, you know, trying your best, essentially. And so as I'm just kind of sitting here processing, like, how would I develop a sermon around it?
Getting super specific would be challenging here. And so I, I think the number one reason is what Jack said, that it's just really uncomfortable and people don't really want to bring it up. But I think, you know, beyond that, it's. It's difficult to find specific practical things to share.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: Well, we talked episode or two ago about, I think two episodes ago about rest, right? And just everybody maybe being a little more burnt out than we realize.
I think this is really difficult for people to tackle because we're too busy tackling pornography you know, which the church doesn't talk about either, but I'm talking, like, in somebody's personal life.
Gossip, anger, extreme anger, overspending.
You think about, like, social media addiction. The things that you want to work on as a Christian spread. Spread it out, put it on a sheet, you know, whatever. You can write it all down. Like, how often is this one going to rise to the very top man? I got six other things that I'm working on, vices that I'm trying to get out of my life. This is going to go down that scale. So this is, to me, almost one of those, no pun intended on the scale, but, like, it's going to go down the list, I should say, on the significance of what I'm going to be working on. Like, hey, I'll get. I'll get around to that. But I really need to work on my sin of anger with screaming at my wife or how I treat my kids or, you know, again, pornography, or there's adultery. Like, to me, it feels a little more Now. Should you be working on it? Yeah, but Jack, to your point, it's like the sanctification of trying to get out some of the other ones, the bigger sins, quote, unquote, the more obvious ones that are going to absolutely wreck a marriage are probably going to go first.
The. The obvious ones that are going to wreck your life, your gambling addiction or something like that, probably going to go first. So I think that's another reason why it doesn't get talked about a lot, is this is a.
I think it's just as there's a reason we're discussing it, I think it's just as important in a lot of ways to have these conversations.
But when people are talking about tackling sins, I don't think this shows up on the radar quite as much. And I think churches are so busy working on those sins, the ones that really put a dent in things and saying these are the kind of. The bigger ones that we don't leave room for a little more nuance.
[00:47:36] Speaker C: I was just gonna say it's like if you're working, you know, if you're trying to improve a restaurant, and it's like, well, we need to focus on making sure the tables are set exactly right and refining this menu. And it's like, maybe we should start with getting the rats out of the kitchen. You know, let's start.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:47:49] Speaker C: And then we'll work on the way.
[00:47:50] Speaker A: That's a good illustration. Yeah, but those things matter and they actually tell a bigger story, because sometimes you See this where somebody will change.
Trying to think of an illustration off my head. But we've all, yeah, we've all heard those preacher illustrations of somebody changing one small thing and it had a butterfly effect change. Sometimes when we think of it that way of like can I. I'll work with clients on like me, just get back to the gym. Had one just today. Just get back to the gym, see what happens. It works. It helps in so many areas that sometimes that's the catalyst to work through. Some of the more significant ones is I feel like I'm in control of my life. So that's why I think we should be speaking on it a lot more and pushing people to say, man, if you can control this, get control of this, that may help with other areas of your life. As you're working on self control around your food, then maybe around your emotions, then maybe around your lust, then maybe around. You know what I mean? So I'm not saying that's like the silver bullet, but I'm saying those things can be correlated.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Well yeah, I mean it can be a faithful and little faithful and much thing. It can be the broken windows thing of.
Because a. This is one of those like reasons it matters and people don't realize it matters your energy levels to handle other things. And when you're not self controlled in one area, like why the things that you do every single day, you're not self controlled in it and then you're going to go try and just conjure self control out of somewhere on something else. It doesn't work that way. And one of the other things about this that's really important is it requires honesty with yourself. It requires looking in the mirror and going yeah, that's not good. And I mean I had to do that in my life.
I've had to do that multiple times. Be like, okay, got a little bit out of control.
I got to do something about this and I'm not where I want to be and I'm, you know, and I caused this so I can do something about it. Because that's one of the things I run into is well, it just happened. I have a bad metabolism.
When I wrote about this a few years ago about the problem among preachers being overweight, Guy told me, well, I eat at a calorie deficit every day and I can't lose weight. And so some people just don't have it that easy. And I went to his profile and he had just made a TikTok video about honey buns.
Come on man, like give Me a break. And so it takes honesty with yourself. He's not being honest with himself. And so if you cannot be honest with yourself in the day to day things, that's gonna cause the bigger problems. What else you're saying? Yeah, focusing on the bigger things. It's an issue when you don't have the little things nailed down.
[00:50:16] Speaker C: Well and what you just said, this goes back to the self control point I brought up earlier about the Bible. Speaking about it, if you are, if you just suffer from an extreme lack of self control with the food that you see or the restaurants you drive by, what kind of person is just incredibly undisciplined with that? But man, when it comes to lust and looking at things they shouldn't, man, they're super dialed in, super self controlled. Like, oh man, you know, that's, that's where they really self control but they can't, like typically there is going to be over. We've made that point before. You know Joe, when talking to, you know, the Gallium in podcast about, you know, if you're going to be disciplined in one area, if you're going to be disciplined in, you know, taking care of yourself, exercise, things like that, you're going to have a higher likelihood of being disciplined. When it comes to reading your Bible, praying every day, working, you know, hard, not calling out stuff like that versus just completely, completely letting it go and then trying to rein it in on the spiritual stuff generally does, generally just doesn't work at all. And that's common sense. That's, that should be something that again one area of your life, it's going to carry over into the other. But it's almost like with this one again people just kind of, it's outside the box of self control and people think there's no correlation there.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: So fellas, we're talking about the church. We're talking about. I think that's, that's a needed discussion. We talk about some of the challenges. You know, Jack, you just mentioned the, the metabolisms. I want you to speak to that briefly. But what I really want to get into is some of the Gnosticism. Does it matter real, real fast because you did speak to this. But like there is a legitimacy in some ways to poor metabolism to, you know, I'm not, you know, I don't want to put you on the spot for health advice or anything like that. You're not a doctor. On the other hand, you've done extensive research in this because you've hit some walls in yourself. I think I personally I know I have a problem with food. Again, that. That's what I'm working on. I'm actively in the process of that. On the other hand, our family very much has a problem with, well, a lot of different things. Insulin resistance and things along those lines. That does make it more of a challenge. Speak to that very briefly before we get to the Gnosticism point. Just for those that may be saying, hey, I go with Doug and say that I just have a poor metabolism.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's the easy excuse to take.
That's saying, I just have no control, I have no agency about this. I am at the mercy of the body God gave me. It's essentially, it's the Adam thing. Well, this body you gave me, that's not good.
And so metabolism is real.
Some people just don't even have to think about it. And man, how nice that is, how they won the genetic lottery or whatever.
Okay. So you gotta think about it a little bit more. But the other thing is this is more adaptable than you think. You can slowly raise your calorie daily intake.
You've just gotta be intentional about it and get to the point where you can actually eat more food. And then when you go to lose weight, you can, because there's some people that basically have to starve themselves to lose weight. Well, that's not great. And so you've got to work your way around this getting up and moving more. You know, you take extra steps during the day. Again, as you say, go to the gym or whatever. These are all things, the kinds of foods you eat. If you are eating the stuff out of the drive through, it's going to bring your metabolism down. It's not just that it's extra calories, it's harmful to your metabolism, it's harming your thyroid. It's all these things, it's making you less able to do that. And so these are not just this is the hand you were dealt and that's how it's going to be. But that's an easy pass to take. And I just, I think that goes back to my point about being honest with yourself is being honest with Yourself is saying 99.9999% of people can do something about it, can be in a, in a decent place of health through self control and through effort. It's going to take time. It's not overnight and all that.
And it's very rare for somebody who just has no hope. And I think a lot of people just kind of resign themselves to that.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: Automatically talk to your doctor if you really feel this is the case, talk to your doctor. Like, hey, I think this is a problem we didn't even get into, you know, nor do we need to, but all the shots and whatnot.
All three of us are not, you know, huge fans of that. But talk to your doctor about it even. Jump on ChatGPT. Jump on. You know, I use grok like and I'll ask, hey, how do I get over insulin resistance? How do I do that? Well, you're going to need to do some at least 12 to 16 hour fasts consistently. Here's when you can do just gives you practical advice on some other ways.
[00:54:36] Speaker C: It's not for a lack of resources that we have.
[00:54:38] Speaker A: Correct, Correct. So use those resources. But that speaks to why does this matter? Because we all do believe as we look to kind of wrap the episode. So we want to give some, maybe some principles right at the end. But like, this is such a key point.
Why does this matter? There's this Gnostic belief and Jack, you ran across this even in the comments on the article you ran across on the first one a couple years back. When you talk about the preacher problem of like, man, this world's not our home. We're just passing through. Who really cares? That's not going to keep me out of heaven. You know, God. God is going to give me a different body altogether. What difference does it make?
So Will, maybe I'll tee you off on this. As far as it goes on the Gnosticism point, obviously we believe in striving for greatness. That is that is our motto of the Godly Amen podcast. We talk about this all the time.
But what would you say to somebody who's going, does this really matter?
[00:55:27] Speaker C: Yeah. So my closing thoughts as you think about First Corinthians 6, the passage we have not brought up here, where the context is pretty clearly sexual immorality. Talking about the body and I'll read it here in just a second, but I absolutely think it does apply here.
Joe, you actually read verse 12 earlier. All things are lawful for him, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but I will not be brought under the power of any or mastered by any later on down is where you know verse 19. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own, for you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. Again, hear me When I say I understand the context there is sexual immorality and, you know, not defiling your body in that way, even then what is the point from that? What is the implication? The body matters. There is something about the body that God has given us. There's something about the physical nature that we've been, that we've been blessed with, you know, and we're going to get a new body when it, you know, when.
For eternity, once this life is over, that matters. And so obviously Gnosticism, people don't really know what that means anymore. Like, nobody's going to say, oh yeah, I'm a gnostic. But a lot of the kind of ideas that are put forth by people specifically, I see it a lot in response to Jack's posts and articles on Facebook generally, is just the idea that it's all going to burn, so who cares? I really just don't believe that that's the way that God intended for us to live on this earth with the it's all going to burn, so who cares mentality. If that's the case, why would family be so important? Why would he say, be fruitful and multiply, you know, in the Old Testament and take dominion. Obviously those are Old Testament mandates. So that was before the flood or although even though some of that was after the flood, but, oh, that's before Christ or whatnot.
The design of the, of the family having children, really going out and, and making the most of, of this life that we've been given, I very much think is a biblical principle. And I, I wish the church spent more time preaching that, because if you really think about it, last is the last thing I'll say.
If the mentality is man live, you know, basically the only thing that we've got, you know, is just hoping for heaven. This life doesn't matter. It's all about getting to heaven. Would that not more so incentivize?
I'm thinking through the lens of young people to just kind of live it up here for themselves. If it's all about heaven later, Joe, you've, I think you've made this point before of like, okay, that's 80 years down the road that hopefully that I'm gonna have to worry about dying and the eternal life. I'd rather kind of enjoy myself now. Right. And so this obsessive foe, you know, this focus of like, hey, it doesn't really matter. This earth, it's all about heaven. To me. It incentivizes all people. But, you know, I'm thinking through the lens of young people to say, okay, if it doesn't matter, then I might as well enjoy my body. I might as well enjoy myself. I might as well live for myself, right? Versus teaching people the worldview of like, no, your body, this life, the things you do, the things you consume, your screens, all that. It absolutely does matter because of the way that Christ rules, because of the fact that we've been, you know, the dominion mandate, we want to make the most of this life. Like, to me, that would more heavily incentivize people to take care of themselves and to pursue Christ in all things, as opposed to, well, if it's not going to matter until I get to heaven, then I guess I'm just going to kind of live for myself. So I don't know if I'm making sense, but that's kind of the way that I see. And those are kind of be my closing thoughts on the Gnosticism thing. Jack, we'll hand it to you next. Any other thoughts on that?
[00:58:54] Speaker B: I think people just underestimate how much of a difference it makes.
And your ability to do things for God in itself, I mean, it shortens your lifespan, that is years in which you can't serve the church, years in which you're not helping your family, your grandkids, whatever else that matters.
How can you say that doesn't matter?
So it's just things like that where I don't think people think through it. And that's one of the reasons why we would urge you, like, hey, take this seriously. This matters.
This has really practical effects. And just heavenizing everything and saying, well, this is just a shell we're going to get rid of. A, that's wrong. That misunderstands the whole process of the body, the resurrection, that's a whole other episode, a lot deeper topic. But B, why did God give it to you? Why did God put you that? He could have just made us floating orbs. He did not do that. And our eyes work our like, this is something that matters. And there's a reason he designed it this way.
And everybody around us is that way. I put in my article that people view overweight people as unself controlled, as you might think. But the one that always really stuck out to me was they also view them as less competent.
People are going to think you're worse at your job, worse at the things you're supposed to do. Whether you think that's fair or not. You can say that's not fair. It doesn't matter.
[01:00:21] Speaker A: They do.
[01:00:22] Speaker B: And you need to do you want to walk around having people think you're incompetent because you didn't handle that.
I don't. And so you take it seriously. And it's just weird to me that somebody would say everybody just needs to get over it and adapt. To me, it doesn't work.
[01:00:38] Speaker A: The way I look at it is if the next 10 generations of my family, if the earth continues that long, look exactly the way I look, am I happy with that?
Am I okay with that?
[01:00:48] Speaker B: Fair point.
[01:00:48] Speaker A: You know, and that's. Yes, that's on the obesity end. That's on a lot of different things. But if I am, you know, tatted up and crazy looking and whatnot, you know, and continue to get more tattoos or whatever, and, you know, and I'm just a massive addict and a drunk or something along those lines, like, do I want everybody down the line, all my kids, grandkids, great grandkids, to look the way I do. It's just a little litmus test for me to check myself to some degree. Kind of a check engine light of sorts to go like, okay, no, I'm living in a way that's not sustainable and that I would honestly be ashamed of my grandkids living in this way or something along those lines. I think that might do a fair amount of good for us to kind of take a look in the mirror there.
[01:01:27] Speaker C: Can I just point out too, we don't do this in any other area of life as far as, like, critique people for noticing the things we can see with our eyes. If I ever get somebody come in for a job interview in, you know, ripped up jeans, you know, a dirty shirt, greasy hair, and I say, you know what, you kind of disqualified yourself already when you walked in looking like that.
Nobody's gonna say, how dare you? You're judging his appearance. What if that's all the clothes? Like, no, people understand that, right? A lot of people, and I would be one of them, make that same. You know, I'm sorry to go off on a rant here, right, as we're kind of wrapping up, but like, I should have brought this up earlier. Same thing with people coming into worship service, you know, like, no, we shouldn't, you know, be too judgmental, but if somebody comes in pretty clear, you know, in pajama pants to worship service, like, yeah, I'm, you know, somebody that needs to be kind of looked at as like, not. Not really. Okay, not. Not a good thing here.
Nobody seems to have a problem with those viewpoints. But when, again, when it's the, you know, weight or stuff like that. It's almost like that's the thing that's off limits, even though other areas of life we don't do that for. So again, sorry to go off on the rant right as we're wrapping up here, but again, it's the common sense. It's the thing we can see with our eyes. And yeah, I would say it absolutely does matter.
[01:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, let's finish with just everybody throw out one practical thing. One, one piece of encouragement or whatever, you know, is something as simple as like, man, stay out of the drive through or whatever. Just a thought that you think.
Because I think people look at this as some insurmountable thing. There are little things that if you made one change, it would change a lot. And so let's just finish with one of those from each of you.
[01:03:00] Speaker C: Mine would be eat dinner at home one more night a week than you're currently doing.
Start there.
Obviously eating at home saves money.
Generally when I say eating at home, I'm not talking about picking up takeout and bringing it home. I'm talking about, you know, cooking a meal at home.
If you're doing that three nights a week right now, great. Shoot for four. Shoot for four nights a week that you're. Obviously we've made that point before, or at least I have with discipling your kids and the family time. That's valuable. But as far as health goes too, I mean it's a lot better. You're cooking with your own ingredients. It's, it's helpful in that way. And so again, if you're a two night a weeker right now, shoot for three. If you're five nights a week, shoot for six. Like that would be, that would be my, the first thing that comes to mind quickly.
[01:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah, mine would be fast for 12 hours. Don't eat after dinner.
We're, we're trying to eat dinner by 6:00'. Clock. Um, we're recording late and so we're, you know, five plus hours later here. And yes, I'm hungry, no doubt, but it's also that that's my body needs the reset. And so bazillion one studies are showing like it needs to be a 12 hour fast can be a really good thing for resetting, especially insulin resistance and such.
16 hours, 18 hours occasionally, something along those lines. But I shoot for 12 every single night and I think that's just a helpful thing. So there's not a whole lot of late night snacking. And once again, when it comes to the gluttony that's where you'll really notice it. That's what I would engage with in your, like, if you feel okay, this is speaking to me. I am struggling.
I go off on the mental health side of things all day long. Like, what are the triggers? When are you eating, man? Every single night I'm having ice cream. Okay, well, that might be a place to start. So where do we dial back on some of those? But I think if you got nighttime routines and morning routines, routines down based off of the fasting and when you started and stopped and put it in a specific window, especially those that do 18 hour fasts and eat in a six hour window. For those that are trying to lose weight initially, that may not be the healthiest thing for everybody across the board. We're not looking to give a ton of health advice. I'm just saying critique where you can, you know, what is your biggest issue and look to kind of solve that.
[01:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say honestly, and I mean honestly, track your calories for just one week.
Put it down, Measure what you eat. Don't just eyeball and go, ah, that was probably 300. No, like track what you eat. I had 8 ounces of milk. I had, you know, this, I had a small fries from McDonald's.
[01:05:19] Speaker A: Whatever.
[01:05:19] Speaker B: Punch it into a thing.
It gives you a sense of where you stand and you might be surprised. And so that, that is, can be pretty eye opening. We did a. These guys had me on Godly Young Men, their other podcast, I don't know, a year and a half ago or something. We had a whole episode on practicals of nutrition, healthy eating, things like that.
You can go check that out. That's the one major thing I wanted to emphasize with that. You don't have to be crazy. You don't have to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. You do not have to run marathons. You do not have to eat a salad for every meal. I think some people look at that and go, if it's got to be that, I'm just not going to.
It doesn't have to be that. And so I don't know, there's a million and one resources. Our whole point here is take it seriously. It does matter. It is a way to be a good steward of what God has given you. And yeah, I don't really have anything to finish with other than that. You guys have any final thoughts?
[01:06:10] Speaker C: Love to hear the comments, whatever you guys have to, especially those of you who are on Focus plus will be responding, of course, to everybody who comments. But yeah. Let us know what you think.
[01:06:19] Speaker B: Yep. All right, we'll talk to you guys on the next one.
Hey, guys, Jack Wilke here. If you enjoy our work with podcasts like Think Deeper and Godly Young Men and our books, articles, seminars, and want to support the work that we do, the best way to do so is to go to focuspress.org donate that's focuspress.org donate thanks again for listening.
