[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Welcome in to Think Deeper podcast. Jack Wilkie here, joined by Joe Wilkie and Will Harrop, as always. But this time we've got another guest with us. We got Vince Bowling. I had the privilege of meeting him. I was preaching in Dalton, Georgia at the church down there.
Just so many great folks. They had had me back for a second time. And I met Vince at a men's retreat. Joe was along with me there and Vince got to telling us stories about his past life and his work.
Boy, he, he probably remembers seeing Joe and I with our, our jaws, jaws on the floor. And Joe at the time said, man, we got to have you on the podcast. Well, that was a few years ago, but finally we, Joe made the connection, made it work. So Vince is with us today. So thanks for joining us first of all. But second, just kind of tell people your background and, and your work and kind of where you are today.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah, well, thank you. I said I'm honored to be on your podcast and it's cool to see you guys again.
It's a blessing meeting you guys both the several times that I did two different men's retreats. So good to see you again. So, yeah, I was, I'm born here in Dalton, Georgia and grew up in Murray county, which is just one county over.
And my childhood experiences, my best childhood experiences were when my parents were involved in the church. And that was probably from about age 17, started probably about sporadically around age 6 and continued up to about the age of 13. So there's seven years of sporadic church life.
There was a peak time in there where my parents were more involved and more connected. And during that time I would spend my summers at Bible camp, which were some of my most fond memories of my youth, if not the fondest.
And those would be critical for me in as my life progressed and would be part, a big part of my prodigal story. But by the age of 10 or 11, my parents got divorced and we pretty much stopped going regularly. We still went sporadically, but I loved the truth and God called me and I responded to a sermon by Winfred Claiborne. He was a preacher there at the time. And my cousin and I had been talking about baptism seriously for a while, tossing back and forth. We both wanted to, we're both kind of scared to, didn't really know what it meant, really. But that Sunday morning I had no choice. I was pulled up by my heart and was baptized. And it was a, it was a life changing experience.
Even as a 12 year old, my heart My, my soul was changed and I knew it. I felt cleansed, I felt fresh, I felt new. Unfortunately, my home environment because of the divorce and the direction my parents went contradicted that almost immediately. It was like I. I received the light and then the darkness came flooding in. It's like Christ the spirit driving Christ out into the wilderness, you know, But I had no idea all that was going on. All I knew was I changed, but my environment changed at the same time. And so within a year or so, I wasn't even going to church at all.
And I still had the. I still had the foundation of truth in me.
But I took a, I took a course at college. It changed that dramatically, which was world religion. And so I got my first exposure to all the other religions of the world. All I knew was church of Christ.
And all I knew in this area were, you know, Christians, you know, denominational churches and which my friends went to.
But we all believed and thought pretty much the same thing about one God and Jesus Christ the Son, the Savior. But when I got exposed to all this in college and it was taught in a way that just was intended to show that there is not one truth.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: But there are many ways to God and they're all good and they're all going to end up at the same place. So, man, my perspective shifted big time. And so these things got mixed up in my psyche.
And that was a very, a great aid in my departure from the faith. I still believed in the one true God. I still believed that Jesus in, in Jesus, but not that he was the only way. Right. So I graduated. Fast forward, go into the corporate world.
Work in New Jersey for about six months. And then I moved to Chicago. I worked there for a couple years in the corporate world. Realized the corporate world is not for me.
I was in sales and I got a taste for what it feels like to be successful in the corporate world pretty quick. I was in second sales in the nation my second year there. A big account. I got closed a big McDonald's account. And it was a big deal for the company.
I signed the contract with the guys. I expect him to feel this great joy of success, you know, and it was just nothing. So I was a little confused. I'm like, okay, now what? And a girl I knew who I was seeing a little bit at the time was an aspiring actress. And she was like, you should, you should try acting. And my brother who had been killed was an aspiring actor. And I'm like, ah, no, I don't want to. I Don't want to go that route. I don't want to remind my parents of that by, you know, they're trying to deal with that as it is, especially for my mom.
So I'm going to go a different route. I don't know what I'm going to do. She's going like, well, I've got this audition, it's like a big cattle call audition for a film they're filming in Chicago. And come with me to the audition. I want to go by myself. And I was like, okay, if you go to lunch, if we can go to lunch, and then, and then I'll go with you. She's like, okay. So we go. And they end up picking me out of the crowd and casting me in the part. Wow.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: First try.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: First try and wouldn't even try. I mean, I just, I went along with her to support her. So they catch me. So I go. This film hero with Dustin Hoffman, Andy Garcia, Gina Davis is filming at the Drake Hotel, downtown Chicago.
So I'm called down and to my call time, I go on set. And I've never, at this point, I've never considered that at all as a, any in any way, shape or form, as a direction I'm going to go, right? But I walk on set and I, I just see all this equipment and the lights and the people and the, all the many different things it takes to pull off one scene.
And I was amazed. And I'm like, this is interesting. And so I started talking to the production people there while I was on set and got even more interested because it was an unknown world, which apparently has at the time, I thought, man, this, this, this would be not only a new and interesting path, but a continually interesting path because it's, you're always doing something different and you're always going different places and you're always meeting new people. This is what they told me during the, my conversation. So I'm like, maybe I will do this. And so I, I, I signed up for an acting class there.
Ended up getting two more roles within like a couple of months at stuff that was filming in Chicago.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: And, and packed my Turning my resignation at Federal Armored Express where I was working.
And yeah, yeah. And that was it. I packed my car and moved to Southern California not knowing anyone, but thinking this. At that point, I thought that that was the most challenging thing I could do in my life. And I wanted a challenge. I thought it would be the most complicated thing to I could do with my life because I knew nothing about it. I knew no one. I didn't know how to get started. You know, all I knew is what a few people told me. Chicago, uh, you gotta get a headshot and you need a resume. So I had a resume starting, right.
I moved out there with no real acting training other than that one class in, in Chicago. But I went out and just got. Got jobs at bars and slowly started getting my resume out. Meeting people, networking, trying to get connected, you know, which is not easy as an outsider, you know, because the people that are connected are very protective of what they have. Right. It's a very neputistic community and a vicious, protective, nepotistic community. Which I would, which I would learn as I went along. I didn't realize that at first.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Did you get your foot in the door more with the acting or on the production side?
[00:09:05] Speaker A: First, first it was acting, but that didn't lead to any steps up to meet people in the higher echelons. There it was when I started doing production work and working behind the scenes and.
And then I would meet people that were people making the decisions and people that were behind the curtain making all the real calls.
And so I would end up after. It took several years, but even with. Even with the acting stuff and the production, so I was still trying to do both. But the acting was taking a second seed because production was good money and it was steady.
Yeah, it was paying the bills big time. But I. But I still had not given up on the acting part of it either. I thought you could just do both. Why not? Let's do it. All right. This is my life, this is my world. I'm going to take the pie. This is my time, you know? Yeah. So I, I ended up being like in all the major studios, cast heads of casting office. Within a few short months I was at Disney with Marshall Ross, at Columbia, Tristar, Fancy Mazar. I was with Don Isaac and at Fox Studios, like I'm meeting with these heavy hitters. I'm going to the CAA and meeting with top agents, the people that handle everybody, the big stars, right, who do package deals. And I start getting some auditions for parts across from De Niro. And I did. I got cast in a film with Al Pacino and had small part, you know, bit rolls, six, five and under they call them.
And, and that was the last film I did. And the only film I did which was with Al Pacino is a film called Simone Obscure. It bombed. It's a box office, probably because I was in it, but nevertheless I was there. One day I'm on Production, working production. And I'm like the grunt on set, like, cleaning out trash cans. And then the next day I'm over at the studio lot having my own trailer, having the people that worship these stars and celebrities and producers and stuff at my feet. It was.
It was a very strange juxtaposition and sickening, to be honest with you. Like, I realized in.
So I realized that's not what I want.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: That's what I was going to ask is when did you start realizing, like, something was off a little bit there?
[00:11:28] Speaker A: It was around the same time that I got that role when I was on set, when I.
When I realized these people were actually worshiping these people, right? That there was.
They worshiped the celebrities and they worshiped the people that had the power, and they just bowed down to him and.
And I. I saw it when I was on set working in production, but I didn't experience it until I was actually in a. In a chair getting. Make hair and makeup done, you know, and then on set, because suddenly they treated me like. Well paid. No attention to me at all in one moment, you know, look down on me even. I'm the. I'm the nobody on set to like, what can we get you? What can we do for you? What can we. You know, And I was like, this is. This is strange.
But then as I got to know more people and got more connected with people and became close with some people that were working for major studios and got invited to parties and premieres, you know, the red carpet stuff and all that, and the more people I met and the more closer I got to them, the more I realized these were some of. Some of the most unstable, miserable people I've ever met in my life. And I had close, close friends that work with some very powerful people as personal assistants who revealed lots of stories to me regarding their per. These people's personal lives, because they set it on all their phone calls and they have to take notes so he can remember everything, right? Because he's going from one person to the next.
There are visits to the psychiatrist. There are, you know, opening the drawer and medicating. And there's just this. This terrible, unstable mental psychosis that is developing, uh, while at the same time putting up a front that I got it all. This is the American dream. We're the. We're the people that make the decisions. So that part was revelatory. And so I'm like, okay, I know I don't want this, and I know I don't want this. But at that point, I'd committed about 10 years to it by the time I got up to that level.
And I'm like, where do I go from here? So I didn't go anywhere, I just stayed. But I kept visiting and being invited to these events and, and I would start to see more and more of the dark side of things.
And so when you say the dark.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: Side of things is that as you said, kind of the pharmaceuticals and pills and maybe alcohol or when you say dark, I guess, what do you mean there?
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Right?
[00:14:04] Speaker B: You can expand on that.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Okay, yeah. So, yes, that. The pharmaceuticals, the pills, drugs, alcohol, you know, sexual immorality, everything that then was the, it was the norm in my life. Right, because you're, you're part of that whole system. You, you go along, you go along with the flow. And so, and if you, if you don't go along the flow, you're not going to be in those circles at all anyway. Right. So that's part of it. But I think that is, is the result of the other dark side. Right? That's the only way to deal with the fact that you're actually working for the spiritual darkness. Right. Which is the power behind the, the powers there. And as I would get glimpses into it, I would see the power that both the porn industry has there, the homosexual and gay community has there, those that say they're Jews and are not, but do lie and they're all connected. I start to begin to see that. And I see that the real money and the real power is also connected to government leaders because all those people that run those studios are connected with presidents, right, Politicians.
The other thing that began to come out, and this was after I got back and I, my eyes were completely open, was the role that the Catholic Church, Church plays with their hands in that pie. Right. So this is wicked Web assorted, I would say threesome, but it's more like a fivesome of entities that are all working together to destroy anything good. Right. To destroy the, not only the morals and ethics of, of this country, but of every person on the globe. Which is why there's a lot of anti American sentiment around the world, especially over in the Middle East.
I realized that then because we have been pumping not only Hollywood, but like the porn industry behind Hollywood anti God sentiment into every culture in the world.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Right. You mentioned a couple times there the porn industry in Hollywood. I think in my mind and in most people's minds, it's kind of like two separate entities and maybe there's a little bit of crossover, but it's kind of, that's this, you know, CD Underworld thing. And, oh, these are just the people out in Los Angeles, you know, making movies for us. But you, you're saying that they're very deeply connected, that there's money or I guess what ways are they connected?
[00:16:43] Speaker A: That's, that's my understanding is that it's a, it's a money thing, right? Because here, here's the cost to make a Hollywood film that's going to go out to the box office, right? It's going to cost $50 million to make this film. Right. And if, if it makes it at the box office, you might make another 50 million. On top of that porn industry, you can make a film for a few thousand dollars and make. That goes into the billion dollar market. Right? So the people that are doing this are, they love money, which we know is the root of all evil. Right? So I'm going to do. If I love money and I'm in the entertainment business, it's a great front to look like I'm doing movies that are for the public, but at the same time I'm funding and receiving reward for things done on, you know, the black market or the Internet market.
[00:17:33] Speaker C: So being in production, not to cut you off being in production, I'm curious, like, did you get pulled into that? Did they start kind of using or. Did you ever have any dealings with the porn industry yourself?
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Not in, not in a, not in a work mode, but I was around people that were. Okay, okay. So as, as, as the days move forward and the more I realized what was going on, I did the same thing they did. The more I medicated, I'm like, I am in something that I don't want to be involved in. I'm seeing things I, I didn't even think existed. Right. Because by this time I'm, I'm, I'm so far away. An idea of a close and personal God that I don't believe, really believe God is even involved anymore. It's, it's just what I can see, touch, taste and feel the material world.
And there's certainly no Satan. He's some sort of cartoon character in my mind. Right. And even if he is real, you know, bring it on. But sorry.
[00:18:37] Speaker C: That brings in an interesting point though on the Satanism, because you did talk about Satan that a lot of people, they want to act like he's not there. Is that a, is the Satanism? Are you talking more of a concept or do you think there's more of kind of a direct connection there to Satanism, I mean, because let's.
[00:18:53] Speaker D: Demonic influence.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: Yes, the conspiracies kind of are. Hey, you know, there's, there's just this demon parties and, you know, human sacrificing and I mean, the conspiracies can kind of get real out there. What's your understanding of those? Do you think there's any legitimacy to any of those theories, anything like that?
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, like I said, I didn't think Satan was real to me at all. I didn't imagine that hatred and cruel hatred for what is good actually existed. I, at that point, religion to me was like some sort of crutch that weak people used, you know, to get through the day. I was strong, you know, I was a man of action. I was a man of the world. I was out, I was making my way, you know, I was, I was getting indoors. Nobody could get in that came out there when I did, you know, around the circles that I, that I came, that I came in with, you know, everybody was coming in on a different bus from a different place to la. I'm going to make it here and I'm going to be a star. So you, you start out with that group of people. People when you're working at a. As a doorman, you know, as I was working at a doorman at the House of Blues on Sunset Strip. And so there's 300 employees at this place. All of them are wannabes, right? So you start there. But somehow God kept putting me in these places. I say God now because I know it was him that moved me up, up, up the ladder and behind the doors, which wasn't happening to these other folks. People were coming and going. People were coming and going. In that 13 years I was there, they last two or three years are gone.
I was, I was riding it out because I was having some success. And so when I did see behind the curtain and was around people that worked in the porn industry was when I began to see the satanic and the demonic with my own two eyes, you know. And so I first saw the demonic influence and then I saw people gleefully testifying that they serve Satan, right? And with these wicked, gleeful laughs. And these were the people that were doing the porn industry stuff.
I began to come under attack because I was in those circles and people knew that I knew.
Right.
So what happens in that situation is they want to silence you, say, and Satan does this very well if he can, if he can scare you enough and can try to convince you two of two things. Both that he's real, but at the same time that he's not real. Now, how do you do that?
He's the master deceiver. And everyone that works for him are deceived and deceivers as well that they've signed on to it at this level, right? This is the pit. This is a pit of destruction I'm in now, right? And so simultaneously as he's working on me to make me believe, to see and to know he's real, he's putting people around me to say, toy with my mind, to make me think, oh, that would, that you're just, you're just tripping, bro.
You know, that didn't, I didn't just do that. No, I didn't just say that.
You know, just a continual onslaught, right?
As Psalms 18 says, the ungodly surrounded me, you know, like a flood.
And that's horrifying.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Hey, folks, I wanted to tell you about our new Christian book combo. It's two books
[email protected] the first is Sunday School Catch Up. It's 150 Bible basics for those that maybe didn't grow up in the church or feel like they're lacking in the fundamentals of the Bible. And then starting line by Dr. Brad Harab and of course by Will on that one as well, on the basics of the Christian life, of what it means to be a Christian, to be part of the church, why the church does what it does, some doctrinal basics and things like that. And so with those two books, we've got them at a discount on our site when you buy them together. A great starter pack for anyone who wants to know more about the Christian faith. So check that out
[email protected].
[00:22:52] Speaker D: So, Vince, I, I want to say, so I appreciate you sharing all that. First of all, I think that you are speaking to what a lot of Christians kind of suspect about the Hollywood industry and kind of, that's that, that's again, that that's just what they suspect is going on, but it's not confirmed. Like, they're like, I'm sure that's pretty bad. So my question to you is, fast forward to today and I'm not sure, just briefly, what year did you kind of officially exit out of that and back away? Was that, how recent was that?
[00:23:20] Speaker A: That was 20 years ago.
[00:23:22] Speaker D: 20 years ago.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: So that was 2000. 2005.
[00:23:25] Speaker D: 2005, yep. So I'm just curious. I'm very curious. As you've kind of fast forward today and now you are looking at the Hollywood entertainment industry kind of on the outside now, as an outsider looking in, but having all the background of inside knowledge that you do have, what are your thoughts on it today? Essentially? And I'm kind of going to pair that question with like, are you of the belief due to some of those things that you just shared and truly horrific things that, that the Hollywood industry engages in, do you think Christians should steer clear of it all together? And by steer clear of it, I mean support the movies they put out. Support the, like just kind of support the industry. I mean, a lot of young kids kind of have Hollywood celebrities as some of their icons and, or idols, I guess I should say. And I don't know, I just, I guess I'm curious, like now that you're 20 years removed and you look at it now, what are your thoughts on it and how should Christians engage with it?
[00:24:14] Speaker A: You know, when I came back, when I first came back and I was so traumatized by what I saw that I unplugged completely. I didn't want to see anything they were doing. I didn't want to hear anything they were doing. So I, I have not had a TV since.
[00:24:31] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: I have four children now. I have a seven year old. A five year old. Oh no, I'm sorry. Six year old. Yeah. Seven, six, four and one point. 1.7.
So they don't spend any time on the boob tube at all. You know, we watch the chosen. You know, I, I hand pick what they watch. You know, they can watch Bible man, right. Everything that they're going to be watching will be only spiritually engaging and not, not but one spirit, and that's the Holy Spirit, you know, so when I was there and going through that and, and where I'm at now, to try to answer your question, because of the groups of people that came at me then, part, part of that being the, the homosexual community was involved in, in the onslaught and the attack and the following you around encircling you.
I watched and heard what was going on very clearly then as they had infiltrated.
When I was there, they were infiltrating the system. They weren't out brazen and bold and in your face with it yet. It was still more, a lot more subtle. But I worked with them and they were, they were everywhere. I mean I couldn't be on one set when it was not. Probably the people that were running the thing were probably at least 50% homosexual. Okay. That's an just production. That's when I was there 2005. And so I Don't, I don't realize. Because all they're doing on the shows is having the one funny homosexual person, right? That's the comic. Always the perverse comic relief person, right? But they want to make you love them because they make you laugh and they're funny and sweet, right? And so they begin to.
Not only that, but they're so involved in such altruistic things in the public eye, right? We're good people and we're loving and we're. We're just, we just want to be respected, right?
I had been confronted with the dark side of that, which says, we hate God. We hate anything about God, but we're going to sugarcoat it, just like Satan does with saying, no, we do love him and we love you.
Right? So I saw the, I saw the, the, the deceptive motive very clearly then and, and watch people just getting taken by it and still, and people still are. So I'm not going to let my kids get taken by that. You know, I'm going to be very.
And I am very, very clear about God's truth about every sin, you know, and what it means. And if you look at Romans, chapter one, I experienced that myself to the, To. To the denial of the truth, right? Suppressing the truth and unrighteous. I went down that path through quite a few of those verses until it got to that part where it talks about, turn him over to debase, to love the man, love themselves.
Thank you, Lord. I was delivered from that, you know, and I, I, but I, I understood that, that the reality of those words, that scripture was what was being played out. Right. Right before the whole nation's eyes in the world. But it's been hidden behind a mask of we're just loving and friendly and good, but behind it is, Is the works of Satan that want to destroy everything regarding his people, his church, his children.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: That's interesting. You said, you know, kind of hiding behind the mask, because that's what I was thinking is you got to kind of see behind you. Got to see from a distance. People can say, yeah, I don't agree with it, but it's. It's not that bad. It's not hurting anybody or whatever else.
One of the things you mentioned, Catholic and Jewish religious involvement and things like that. One of the Joe mentioned earlier, the conspiracy theories and videos online saying, hey, this is what happens in Hollywood is the abuse of children. And of course, there's so many former child actors that come out and say what happened to them and all that.
Do you believe that is Something that is. Or is that something you observe? Is that part just kind of baked into the whole system? Is that part of it or is that overblown?
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Where.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: What do you think about that side.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Of it that I don't know anything about? You know, I, I.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Good. Yeah.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't see any of that or experienced any of that, but, you know, I don't doubt that it's true. I mean, when you're, when you're in the darkness and you're, you're drinking children's blood, you know, and they're. There's. There is.
There's no doubt in my mind that, you know, they're doing every depraved and wicked thing there is.
You know, they've, They've given themselves over to the, the murderer, the, the liar, you know.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Now, when you say real fast drinking children's blood, are you talking. Is this an allusion to abortion or are you talking like there's literally, once again, adrenochrome, things like that type stuff that.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: No, I never experienced that or saw. That's what you.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I was curious about. Like, did you have experience on the. Maybe not the sexual abuse side, but the adrenochrome, those type of theories?
[00:29:44] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: No, nothing there. But I can say I still don't, I don't doubt it, because all things that are hidden are going to be revealed, you know, and that process is happening out there, and that's why all these people have been coming out in these last few years is that's. That's God's promise, you know, and it will continue to do so just. Just as this testimony is.
[00:30:10] Speaker C: You know, you see Diddy, you see Epstein. Right. And that's why, I think, to the Hollywood end, they're all tied together, as you talked about. They're major conglomerates and such and the heads of these industries. And then you have somebody like P. Diddy and the trial that's going on there, and, you know, the sex trafficking. And then you have Epstein, and he's tied in with every major name known to man. They had the book years ago that had me. What is the name of it? It was like a black book, basically, that had all the prostitution rings going around Hollywood and that came out. And there's a ton of stars implicated in that, which got swept under the rug fairly fast. Yeah, it seems like there is a significant amount of darkness in. You talk about the porn industry.
All of these things seem to be like, sex kind of drives Hollywood on that front. Um, so it's interesting, though, to kind of shift gears here a little bit, because you talked about the gay agenda. They get that in. We've seen this. But you spoke to it very well of like, he's the funny character. It's just one at a time. We saw, even before that, feminism coming in. We really saw with Marvel films where it's like, oh, she can beat up anybody. But, like, feminism came in and it was kind of subtle. And. And then the LGBTQ movement. And so you see these different agendas, these different movements, things like that, and they're pushing it years before. And so I'm curious, from your standpoint, you don't have a tv. You know, you don't necessarily engage with it. On the other hand, as you're looking ahead, do you see any potential new agenda that they may be pushing or that you're afraid of, specifically of them pushing? Because now LGBTQ is just in the. Obviously, we're in Pride month, quote, unquote. So this is a normal thing. But when you were there, just starting to get started, right? It was just the very beginning of it. Do you see any, or would you have any caution for parents going forward of things that you might see as new agendas being created by Hollywood?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Well, because I am unplugged and I think is, you know, meet the new boss, same as the old boss. You know, he's got his. He's got his agenda, which is. Which is just to tear down every family structure, you know, to manipulate our thinking, to slowly, meticulously, methodically change us. You know, subtle.
[00:32:14] Speaker D: Subtle messaging is what, man. Yeah, that's.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: That's rampant. You know, first time I. I was here, home when I first came back, for about five months. First time I've ever been unplugged from TV and media in my life. And I was immersed in it, you know, I knew when I left there, I knew all the productions that were going on. All the productions were in pre production, post production, who was running them, who was writing them, who was casting them.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: All.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: All. You. You're supposed to know if you're going to work in that industry, to just going completely silent because I realized my. My mind had to be renewed, and the only way that was going to happen was by the spirit of God and through silence and listening to what I was supposed to do next.
[00:33:06] Speaker D: Let me ask you this, Vince. I'm curious. So you said you don't have a tv, or you said that for a while you didn't have a tv, and you're very selective about what your kids watch, I'm sure, what you watch, of course. So this, this question I'm going to ask you is purely, I just want your opinion, your take on this. And that is one of the things, one of the things talked about on this podcast quite a bit really, for the last year and a half, two years, kind of off and on, is the idea of boycotts, boycotting certain things. Obviously boycotting Target, that was a pretty big deal way back when. You know, they started doing the transgender or the, the m. Bathroom stuff and then the transgender clothing and that kind of thing. But more recently, there have been discussions that we've had a lot of people have had about boycotting either Disney altogether, canceling Disney plus subscriptions and just not supporting Disney movies due to kind of the, the not just woke and worldly agenda, but some of the awful stuff they're putting out there, some of the stuff that's come out about what they have admitted that they are trying to do, which is disciple kids into transgenders and homosexuality. And so, you know, we've talked about boycotting Disney before, so I'm going to, I'm just kind of curious as to your thoughts on. Do you think, boy, first of all, do you think boycotts work in the sense of like, you know, whether it be a specific movie, specific company, whatever it is. And then secondly, like, do you think that's something that Christians, again, just your opinion, should be doing? Should we be boycotting Hollywood? Should we be boycotting entities like Disney or certain films, whatever it may be? What are your thoughts on boycotts in general?
[00:34:31] Speaker A: Never, never really boycotted, you know, to just completely unplug. And I'm boycotting everything, right? So I'm, I'm canvassing the whole, the whole system.
But, and that's a tough one with Disney, with kids, you know, because a lot of the stuff out there that other kids are watching and talking about and wearing the shirt and the shoes and the, all the merchandise that goes along with it. And my kids see it and they like, somehow they know all their names without ever having even seen these things, you know, and they're like, oh, that's Princess Such and such. And that's so, and so, so the, the power of that marketing is reaching my kids without them even, ever even seeing these shows. So I know that, I know the danger of it, you know, so I think I, I, I'm all for boycotting all of that, you know, because I, because if you know their agenda, tolerating sin in a world ripe for judgment is A tacit form of holding hands with the devil.
So you want to. Not. You want to. You want to watch it. You want to say, well, you know, it's an adult program and I'm an adult. Well, you're going to sit. What you're going to do is sit as an adult, not as a child. But you're going to watch people sinning against God for. For two hours, taking his name in vain, committing adultery, murder, rape, you name it. They do it all. And we call it entertainment.
And you can see that if you go back to where you know, where that all began. And you can see it as it slowly changed over time, you know, as the world become more and more godly, as Satan's agenda was pushed more and more forward, it was through entertainment.
Entertainment programming, channels, channeling. Right.
The power of the word that we hear is always manipulating us and indoctrinating us.
If we don't have the Holy Spirit in us, Christ is saying, that's a lie. That's trying to destroy you. Right. That's going to corrupt you and our children don't. So boycott it all. Boycott it all. You know, Interesting.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: I.
Every few months, I kind of mull over, like, man, should I throw away the tv? And you're. You're bumping me a little bit closer to it. So you win me over a little bit there.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: But that's my goal, man. Get that junk.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: That's right. Maybe so a couple more. We're gonna run short on time here. But there are people who claim to be Christian in Hollywood. When you see, let's say, a young Christian kid, you know, enjoys acting or wants to be on the production side or whatever else and thinks, you know, I'm gonna do what you did, go to Hollywood and try to make it.
What would your advice be? Would it just be, don't even get on that bus? Or would it be, watch out for this or what is your view on that?
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I've had to. I've had to witness to quite a few people by parent request that knew a little bit of my story who have children that are interested in it or are even already out there. I even went out there and knocked on one of them's door and to try to get him back. There's actually three. Three people that I know of in Central that have relatives or children that are in Hollywood right now immersed in it. Yeah. Ross being one of them. Right. Your nephew.
Yep. And he's swept into that whole system. What I'm just talking about, I don't Know how far he's gone, but very far. Yeah, I was going to say, the higher up you get, the more you see and hear he's. And he's. Yeah, he's working. You guys can talk about that in a minute. But my, My first instinct is don't go. You know, at the same time, I know all things are possible with Christ, but if I think in my own self, in my own strength, that I can go out there and hold the line, maintain my integrity and my moral tenacity, and I can do this, and I can do this, and I think I can do it.
I. I better stay home because, you know, match for them.
[00:38:21] Speaker D: You know, I think that.
I was just gonna say. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think that's very, very wise advice. There's just some industries that, you know, taking it out of Hollywood. Like if a kid. If a kid said, I really want to try to go make it in the.
I don't know. Or like the, the selling alcohol industry, like, you just can't do that as a Christian. Right. There's just certain things that are off limits. And I think a lot of Christians don't have Hollywood necessarily in that bucket. They think that's still kind of within bounds. Of course not the not going and starting strip clubs and stuff like that. That's kind of obvious to them, but they still would think of Hollywood. It's like, well, there's some good parts and just avoid the bad. And I'm. I'm glad to hear you say. I figured that's what you would say. Just kind of confirm like, no, Hollywood is right there in the bucket of industries that a Christian just cannot really be a part of.
[00:39:05] Speaker A: I agree. I mean, you know, again, with Christ, all things are possible. If you knew, you know, if you knew for a fact it was God calling you into it and there was a. He had cleared a path for you, you know, and. And it was. It was certain that, you know, and no one can only know that but for themselves.
But even. Even in that situation, if I really felt that strongly called to work and try to go do that and still maintain my faith and have on the whole armor of God, I still wouldn't do it by myself. I'd go in twos, you know, and how rare is that going to be that someone else has the same hope and dream as you do, but and is also rooted and grounded in their faith and the love of Christ that will. It's like going to. Okay, I'm. I'm a sheep. I'm gonna willingly go into a pack of wolves. I mean, you wouldn't do that. Who would do that?
Two sheep in a pack of wolves.
[00:40:00] Speaker C: So you talked about, and, and this is a, I guess a leader or a follow up question to that. You talk about Christians in Hollywood. There are a few that claim it. Kirk Cameron, some people say Chris Pratt, you know, he kind of, he, he's a believer. Do you think that's legitimate? Because you also talked about, and I said, and I guess got us in a little hot water on the podcast a little bit ago of Catholics and Christians aren't necessarily the same thing. You talked about the Catholic Church being very involved, which I think is very interesting. That wasn't necessarily on my radar. I figured the other things maybe, but not that. You also see a lot more Catholics. You see Mel Gibson, Mark Wahlberg, people like that. Can you be a Christian in Hollywood? Do you think that's a legitimate thing for these guys to maintain their faith? Because it seems like you'd have to compromise on too many things, too many palms crossed, things like that. But then I also want you to speak a little more to the Catholic influence underlying Hollywood because that fascinates me. I had no idea.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Yeah, well, go watch any film you want to watch. Any big film, any big successful film, you're going to find 99% of them, if there is a religious figure in it, it's a Catholic priest.
Yeah. And so if they're going to, if they're going to be portrayed in a film, they're probably back there with the funding in the film.
Okay. And so they got deep ties in anything that is, has financial gain and anything that's going to publicize their agenda. Yeah, right. They are, they're doing all out proselytize. So can you be a Christian? And are these guys really Christians? Only God knows. You know, I hope they are. They profess it. Mel, Mel Gibson seems to profess it a lot. He, I've heard some of his testimony is exact same things that I experience. When you get to that point where you're in those rooms and you realize these people aren't right. Something's not good here and I'm not part of it. So what does that mean? And, and what do I do in this situation? And you just try to keep going on and try to start figuring it out what's going on. But, but yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting that, that anyone could go there.
People are so scared to say anything against the Catholic Church. Why is that? Because they're so big because they're so powerful, they're so numerous. Right. You're going to speak against the Pope? Well, yeah, because he is exalting himself above the word of God.
I mean, that whole system has been corrupt from the beginning. You know, you can go back and look at the history of it. It's immersed in indulgences.
You know, pay for your sin with cash. I mean, child molestation, I mean, that's all. That stuff's all come out, but it gets suppressed. Who suppresses it? Hollywood does, because they make them look good on film all the time.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: It's very interesting.
[00:42:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: So I guess one thing, and since we're running out of time, we'll. We'll close on, on this part of your story.
You had mentioned, you know, leaving Hollywood, getting separate from it for a few months and kind of seeing the darkness that you had kind of been immersed in.
Is that what sent you immediately back to church? Or how did you kind of end up making your way back to God?
[00:43:02] Speaker A: When I. When I saw the satanic and the demonic in those last few weeks there, I fled for refuge. I'm like, if Satan's real, then the God I abandoned a long time ago is real and I better go seek him. And so I fled from California all the way back to Georgia and went to the church building to come to find out that my sister had been going to a church and had told them I was in trouble. And they had taken my name on a post it and nailed it to a big cross on their stage. And this congregation of about 2,000 folks had been praying for me for a couple of months. And then I walked in there, I walked in their door pretty much in shambles just to go tell them, thank you for praying for me. So I came back seeking refuge, not really knowing what that meant. You know, I'd been so distant from it when I first walked in the church and I heard the word sin for the first time. You don't hear that word in Hollywood, right? There's no such thing. When I heard the word, all this talk about blood and Christ's blood and sin, it was so foreign to me. But at the same time I knew God was real and God was true. And at that point, he's all I ever wanted. I had, I had to find Him. And so I got so I'd been lied to and deceived so much, I got. I was so hungry for the truth, I just immersed myself in his word continually. And as I did that, he revealed everything the truth about everything I had been going through and experiencing out there and confirmed it. And so, yeah, that's how I just.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: To get a little more specific on the story, just out of curiosity, you talk about in the last couple weeks, like, really coming face to face with the statement, is this people you referenced earlier, like, the people laughing openly about it? Is that what you're talking about? Or was there a.
[00:44:53] Speaker A: That's what I'm talking about. And, yeah, and, and. And the people that I was in, literally in a room with, I saw the demons. God caused me to see him, I guess, you know, at the time, I just saw their. Their who they really were kind of come out in their faces and then go back in. You know, I saw the supernatural, and that scared me so bad. And, and at that same time, I realized these same group of people, I started really listening to what they were saying, and what they were saying was about me and what they were going to do to me and that how much they hated me. And there I am, and I'm stuck there, and I'm like, I'm lost.
I'm. I got to get out of here, man. I don't. I, I didn't do anything to any of you guys.
They hated me. Without a cause. Right. Says the scripture. I don't even realize I'm a lost sheep at this time. Right. A sheep of God's sheep. I just realized I'm. I'm somewhere I should not be. I'm way too in too dark of a place. I realize, okay, this guy's nickname is G.D. not G.D. the whole word, you know? God damn it. I don't like to say it, but that's his name. That's his code name.
He calls his place Motel 666.
And I've been hearing that for a while and going there not thinking anything about it.
On his door are spiders. Pictures of spiders all over his front door. His inviting thing is, we'll always leave the black light on for you. You go in. His furniture is all covered with upholstery with flames, like you're in hell. Right? But I don't see any of that until that, that last couple of weeks.
[00:46:32] Speaker B: That's pretty wild.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it was wild. It was horrifying, man. And, yeah, that's why I fled.
[00:46:41] Speaker C: Well, and, you know, 2,000 people praying for you.
[00:46:43] Speaker A: Exactly, man.
[00:46:45] Speaker C: You know, like, that seems to be the thing that opened your eyes, is the power. Prayer really does work.
[00:46:49] Speaker A: Amen. Amen. And I was so thankful for that. I, I, I Prayed two times during that experience.
Once I prayed and trembling, going, okay, I know you're not going to hear my prayer because of what I've been doing in the life I've been living right as you. There's just no way you're going to listen to me. But I knew people were praying for me, you know, I said, please listen to their prayers and get me out of here. You know, I got no power to do it on my own. I prayed that prayer.
And it's.
It's strange to pray a prayer saying, I know you don't hear me. That doesn't make it much sense, but that's what I did. And then. And the next prayer was a little while later. I prayed for. I sprayed. God, I need. I know I need you, and I need help getting out of here. And for three days, my life was suddenly like. I walked outside in the light, and everything was calm and beautiful and peaceful. Like, I was like, I've escaped.
I've overcome, you know? And I was like, wow. But I made the mistake of telling one of my friends, my frenemies.
I was like, man, I just prayed a couple of days ago, man. I. And I feel like I'm free. And he's like, oh, really? And then next thing I know, hey, what's going on, man? We brought something for you, you know, and so try to pull me back down. And they did, into the pit.
[00:48:16] Speaker B: Wow.
Yikes, man. Yeah, man.
[00:48:19] Speaker C: So it's almost impossible for. For people to get out of it once they're in it, is what it seems like it is.
[00:48:24] Speaker A: And I watched. I saw people. I didn't see them die, but they died there in the pit, you know, and did not escape. And I just. I pray for people all the time. I, you know, I came out. When I came out of there, I was on my knees praying. Once I had read enough scripture and had drawn close enough to God, he's made himself real to me and help me and save me and deliver me. I prayed so fervently that God would raise someone up and in Hollywood to tell his story in the truth and the way it's actually supposed to be spoken so that people. More people could hear the truth through that media because Satan's used it so effectively. I just want God to do. Do one good work in Hollywood you could do. Change it. Change so many lives and save so many people. And lo and behold, the chosen popped up, right?
And I watched the first episode and I'm like, this guy's. This is not just this Is not like a Hollywood. This is like somebody wants to actually wants to tell the truth. I'm a little concerned about it now though.
One, two things.
One is they have the Catholic Church on their advisory committee and Jesus is Catholic.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:49:34] Speaker A: And you got to think about that after what I just told you, all that stuff, you know, I'm like, if they're funding it now because now they've changed their marketing platform. It was all free but got so successful, guess who's coming in to take, take over or try to take over or may have been there from the beginning, I don't know. So I'm, I'm a little concerned. They also exalt Peter a little too much in the program. So you got yet though, you got through two things, man. And Mother Mary, they exalt her a little too much. So if you watch that closely, you'll see that. And so that, that could be where that's going and if that's. So that's a dangerous, dangerous weapon right.
[00:50:10] Speaker B: There, you know, that's too bad.
[00:50:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I hope it doesn't.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: Right.
Yeah, man, that's, that's interesting stuff. That's why we wanted to have you on as we knew you had kind of seen things from the inside. And so we really appreciate you sharing your time and your stories and just being willing to be open about it. I think that is eye opening. Gives me some things to think about. Like I said with entertainment and family and the things we engage with. So very good stuff. Thanks for Vince coming on.
[00:50:37] Speaker A: Thanks for having me.
[00:50:38] Speaker B: Yeah, appreciate it.
If you're listening, stay tuned. We'll have the Think Fast segment for you here in just a minute.
Hey folks, you've probably heard us talk about Focus plus and the Deep End. If you're wondering what that is. Focus plus is our subscription service available through Patreon. Every week members get all kinds of Christian content for your walk, including daily devotionals, a sermon of the week and our understudied teaching series which Joe and I lead through obscure and less covered books of the Bible like Leviticus and Revelation.
We also have the Deep End, of course, which is our bonus segment exclusively for Think Deeper listeners where you can submit your comments on an episode and we will respond and have a bit of a Q and A each and every week. That drops every Friday. So if you're interested and want to know more, check that out. Go to patreon.com and search focuspress or go to focuspress.org/.
[00:51:28] Speaker A: Alright.
[00:51:29] Speaker B: I want to thank Vince for joining us for that Interview. Now we're going to go ahead and get to our Think fast for this week.
I wrote a few days ago an article on titled Pride Month is Dying or why Pride Month is Dying.
My view on it is you might have noticed a lot of the corporations did not change their social media logos to the Rainbow.
There's been reports of Target stores, which were notorious for how in your face they were, are really not promoting those displays quite the same.
One of the other things I think is significant, it's anecdotal, but it matters, is in the comments sections under when sports teams or whatever announced their Pride Night, it used to be 50 to 1 in favor of, oh, this is great, we got to support these people too. Now it's the opposite direction. It is few and far between for support and just a lot of people saying, we're sick of it. This, we don't need to do this. Stop it.
But then there were statistics that the GOP in the last three years has seen its gay marriage support drop by 14%.
And a Guardian report last year said that US just across the nation, support for LGBT rights and gay marriage and things like that dropped for the first time since 2015.
So I feel like a vibe shift is happening. Some people say it didn't. And what I was going to bring you guys into this conversation to talk about was the objections that I got. And I'll start with the first one.
This is only a result of the election. Some people pointed out that, you know, government funding was pulled from certain things. Maybe companies and others aren't getting money kind of filtered through back channels for promoting these things. That's a possibility, but that is the only reason with the change of president, it will be completely back to where it was in 2021, 2022. What do you guys say to that?
[00:53:18] Speaker C: I disagree. I disagree. I think the reason we have the precedent we have is because the vibe shift was already taking place before the president.
I think people are tired of it. The dilemma of anything. You referenced this in the article. That's immediately where my mind went on this. I think the though obviously we do not support alcohol on this podcast, we don't support Bud Light, anything like that. That was a turning point that Bud Light really overstepped and everybody said, hey, this is a beer company. What are you doing with transgender person that doesn't represent, quote, unquote, American values.
That seemed to be a huge overstep on their part. A huge misstep, I should say. And so, yeah, that was already taking place. This Vibe Shift. You were feeling it. And I think Covid was kind of the wake up moment for a lot of people concerning government, concerning blm, concerning lgbtq. All of those things I think kind of came into the public consciousness of. Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute. I don't think this is right. So I don't think this is a political shift just because of Trump being in. I certainly think that helps, like, shut some of these things down.
I don't think it's. Yeah, I don't think the. The vibe shift is just from that, though. Well, what are your thoughts?
[00:54:31] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree with you completely. I think about two things. One, and both of these have to do with kind of transgenderism being wrapped up in the LGBTQ agenda, I think. And Jack, I think you made it at the excellent point in the article. Like, this is where that inevitably leads. Like, there is no just stopping with gay marriage and, you know, just let them do what they want to do. And. And that's. That's. That's the end of it. That's all they're asking for. At the end of the day, it's not because it devolves into a lot of these other things that we're seeing, but I think about how much the transgenderism movement I do think has harmed. And I think obviously that's positive for us because we don't believe in it, has harmed this agenda for two reasons. One, and Joe, you're right about the Dylan Mulvaney thing. I think that was a huge, huge aspect of this. When you see the. The. The. The boxer is the one that I think of. Of course, Leah Thomas is pretty well known of the man that dominated the women's competition, women's swimming competition.
Riley Gaines was now a. Is a prominent commentator, essentially like a political commentator. And she made the news for essentially kind of calling this out.
Brought a lot of attention to it. And everybody saw those pictures, like, yeah. Huh. That's. That's kind of weird considering he's this guy William Thomas that changed into Leah Thomas is, like over six feet and, like, very broad shoulders. And then that boxer. I apologize, I don't remember the name, but that news just came out that it. Yeah, the news came out recently that it was confirmed just like we all suspected, that he had male genetics. Male. Male DNA. And. And so I think that combined with. So there's the one side, I think also Elon buying Twitter to the point where a lot of the stuff that was going on that was just horrific stuff being done to kids, obviously, drag queen story Hour. But, you know, basically, kind of some of the things that. What these people, the transgender individuals and, of course, homosexuals, what they're doing in the school systems and all that, it got revealed, it got kind of shown, and people started getting clued into, like, oh, this isn't just in the privacy of their own home type of thing. They are really trying to disciple kids and really trying to push this on young people and in some cases, do awful things to young people. And so I think that contributed to it as well, personally, is just the fact that a lot of people's eyes were opened, and while they were willing to cross the line of, okay, you know, maybe I don't believe in gay marriage, but if they want to do that, go for it.
A lot of people aren't willing to cross the line of Drag Queen story Hour. And again, what. What a lot of these public school teachers in, you know, other states and things like that are trying to push to young kids, and they're. They're just out on it. I think a lot of that's where a lot of the political and societal discussion went. So I think that harmed the LGBTQ movement. Personally, even, like you said, Joe, even before Trump got elected. Those are my thoughts, Jack. I'm sure, of course, you wrote the article. Sure. You got some thoughts as well.
[00:57:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I agree that the transgenderism thing was like, whoa, whoa, this is way too far. But I think in the meantime, it caused people to look back at the. The gay marriage.
[00:57:42] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: You know, in the privacy of their own home. And it's not hurting anybody. And looking at, like, well, actually it is, and not just because it goes to this extreme, but, like, I don't know if you guys saw the story about Glenn Greenwald. He's a international reporter guy, he's a gay man, was married to another man. All that and video leaked out of him.
Not, you know, it's just very salacious look, like drugs look, you know, and this is a man that they. They adopted sons. And so he's got his sons in.
Presumably in the house where he's got a male prostitute there with him. And it was awful. I didn't watch the video. I visited these descriptions because I have no interest in putting that in my mind. I don't endorse or think anybody needs to go look for that. But people see, hey, these are not people like me and you. It's just a man and not a woman. It's degeneracy from top to bottom of this entire movement. And, yeah, I Think that's part of it.
[00:58:39] Speaker C: And as you said, it's not just the corporations, though. We do see like target is shifting and a few of these are shifting. It is the people in the comments. I looked at one, Jack, I think you linked to this on your Twitter, but the or X, sorry, the Yankees came out and they did their rainbow color and everybody goes, see still around. You look at the comments and I mean, I read like the first 30 comments. They were all negative to your point. So that's the vibe shift is even if the companies aren't there yet or the sports teams or the. The brands, people are there. People are real sick of it. Which I saw a few of those.
[00:59:12] Speaker D: This goes back to our wokism is dying episode on Think Deeper a couple months ago. Now it is no longer the quote, unquote, cool thing to do to be woke. Like, like, it's just not. And I think a lot of the corporations and. And you can say, and I think this is probably some legitimacy to the idea that, like, they know it's not in the zeitgeist right now, and so they're just kind of waiting around until maybe it is again. Like, their personal agendas haven't gone away. They're just kind of playing to the crowd. I suppose that's probably a legitimate conclusion. However, you see, and this was a couple days ago, so it might have changed, but I was reading up on like, the NFL and their. Their Pride Month, which you. I don't know if y' all remember, like, three years, three, four years ago, you could not get away from seeing that stuff all over the place. Every team would change their logo to that on their profiles. They would. Stuff would be posted all the time. Of course, there's no NFL on in June, but still, like, it was. It was pretty inescapable as of two days ago. And I do apologize. This might have changed. I know this video comes out later. There were 10 teams that had not posted a thing about Pride Month.
That was on June 3rd, where, you know, 20, 22 of them had, but 10 of them had not. And so, you know, again, three, four years ago, man, June 1st, every team, bam. Like, we gotta. We gotta do our clockwork token ver. Token virtue signaling here. And it's just, it's. I think businesses and corporations and sports teams or whatever are realizing this is not nearly as. As looked upon favorably. Just like a lot of the woke stuff, the MeToo movement kind of died pretty rapidly. Rapidly, as we talked about with the Blake Lively situation kind of being a demonstration of that, all kind of stuff like that. So I think that contributes to it as well.
[01:00:46] Speaker C: That is where Trump coming in has helped. Yeah, I think because the DAI shutting all those things down. So I, I agree with that.
[01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. The other one was DEZ Bryant, former player tweeted about the NFL is gay. Like, no, it's not. I'm going to teach my sons this is not what football is.
That kind of thing would have just ruined somebody's life to say that, you know, a few years ago. So it is changing. I do believe I fully agree with some people that these are cynical, money driven changes for like a Disney and a target. Like they didn't ideologically get on board, but it's a good sign that they feel like they do need to do this. And I don't, as you guys said, I don't think it has anything to do with, well, there's a new president and when another president comes in, it's going to change. No, it's, it's the people who don't want this anymore. And I think that's the, the tea leaves they're reading. Yeah.
[01:01:31] Speaker D: Awesome.
[01:01:32] Speaker B: It's a very positive shift. So that's our Think Fast for this week. Again, thanks for everyone who's tuned in and for the episode, the interview that we've had. We have the deep end coming up on Friday. So get your comments in. I think we should get some really good ones this week. And so we're looking forward to that. Join us there focuspress.org/ and we'll talk to you guys on the next one.
