[00:00:08] Speaker A: All right, let's get to a brief. Think fast about the Duggar family is in the news again, very unfortunately, another Duggar son arrested for sexual.
Yeah. Crimes. And this time with his wife, who apparently was aiding and abetting and involved.
This is another man. It is a disastrous thing. And so we actually had somebody request to talk about it, and it was kind of interesting, the angle. They basically said, well, they teach a lot of what you guys teach. And so this is why, like, you know, this is the problem with these things.
I know. That's a real convenient story. You know, it's one of those, like, I'm sorry. Every time a public school teacher of the. Many, many, many times a public school teacher sleeps with a student, like, you guys don't let us use that as a get out of public schools thing. So. Yeah. On the other hand, this does show that, hey, this. This way of homeschooling and big families is not a path to a perfect life. You. That there's.
There can be abuse, there can be bad things that happen in this world.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: So my came out. No, go for it.
[00:01:09] Speaker C: Go ahead, Joe. You want me to go? Okay.
So, yeah, I'll give my take and I actually off air, I'll talk to you guys about maybe doing an episode on this because I think it might be very, very interesting. My overall take on this because, yeah, the Duggars, man, talk about a family that just absolutely. Just train wrecks. I mean, you know, from.
I know not all the kids are, but, you know, the Josh Duggar story, some of the worst stuff I've ever read in my entire life. And then of course now to have one of the. Another son, basically, you know, similar path. It's just. It's terrible.
Here is my overall take.
I think there is such a thing as a family that is too big that, you know, having too many kids. The full quiver movement. That's what I think might make for an interesting episode.
You know, there's the different views on, you know, reproductive measures and, you know, should family planning. Essentially, you. What you clearly see with the Duggars is a family where no matter what image that Jim Bob, the dad, you know, put forth on the TV show or whatever it is, he did not and his wife did not disciple their children the way that they. The way that they should have.
And it's one of those things that like, well, how could you. When you have 19 children or, you know, however many, you know, like it. The. The time is a zero sum game. And that's what to me is most Interesting about the question of how many kids should you have which again I just think is a very interesting discussion is because you're just going your. Your time spent influencing and discipling your children, specifically your sons. If you're the. If you're the dad you just have less of it to go around. And so what I see when I look at the Duggars is the TV show and the publicity thing aside, parents, a dad who didn't really disciple his sons at all. A dad who was more concerned with again maybe making the money or making them a household name, whatever it is or protecting the purity culture reputation of the Duggars, the homeschool reputation or whatever versus I want to disciple my kids faithfulness.
That'd be hard for me to do If I had 20 kids. And so again that might be a discussion for another day but that was kind of the first take that I had was man just another example of why that's too many children to have.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: Joe, I didn't expect that take. That's. I think I would agree with that take.
But yeah, I was thinking you're going to go in a different direction. There are a lot of different directions to go with this. That man, it's just such a sad story. This goes to yes men can sin. Obviously we're not saying otherwise but this is a. I think it was Jill on a podcast or in one of her books mentioned that when they go to their grandparents house the grandma would basically have to lock them in the room away from the grandfather because they basically knew he's a known pedo.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: So they're about Jim Bob's parents.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Yes, Jim Bob's dad. Now I don't want to speak where I'm not fully sure on that but that's my understanding is that is the case so people can fact check that.
The point is these things are generational and abuse comes down the line in a horrible, horrible way where the. I think it's. What is the statistic. It's in the 90% I think of those that molest and those that abuse had it done to them.
Absolutely horrible. The thing to do is to bring it into the light as much as you possibly can to get them therapy immediately and to say, you know, if you can and really to just figure out what exactly is going on and help kids work through what has taken place and what's been done to them. Kids take abuse and they think I must have wanted it or they, you know, go and explore and do it to somebody else. I think this is what took place with Josh and when you have 19 kids to your point, well, you'd need to rely on the oldest kids to help with the youngest kids. That means there's gonna be a lot of alone time with the oldest kids. You better hope that nothing like this has taken place. And so you end up doing things to your siblings. This happens more often than we'd care to admit when these things take place, especially with abuse among siblings and such. And so what Happened is at 12, this all came out and the Duggars basically buried it. Well, they sent it to a camp and then it came back and it was fine. Like you didn't do due diligence as a parent to understand what is going on, what happened? What, what, what are the consequences? Or going forward apparently course correct and get him out of this. And instead this abuse has continued to the fourth generation. At this point, I don't know if Jim Bob was. But it maybe skipped a generation.
But now down to the grandkids or great grand, whatever that is, great grandkids of this initial abuser guy. And maybe he was abused as well, statistically speaking, probably. So it just.
Man, if, if abuse has taken place. That's my take on this is. If abuse has taken place, get yourself some help, get your kids some help immediately reach out for us. I will be glad to point you in the right direction from. For the right therapist, a Christian therapist who uses the right approach, a trauma based approach and such. But man, I mean, this devastates families. This is another devastating story. Yeah, it's sad. Jack, what do you.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah, man, I remember, you know, my, my mom, obviously a homeschool family kind of person. When that show first came on, I was like, oh, this is so cool. And I remember watching like, this is weird.
This is, it's a freak show kind of thing. And they were basically trading on that like, oh, you know, look at. Yeah. And, and like, oh, what a nice happy family. It's like, man, something is off here. And you can just tell and that to me. And as you say, the grandpa did it and it was just cover ups all the way down. When Josh did it, as you say, they covered up, covered up, covered up because there's a reputation to keep and there's all that. It's like, I'm sorry, I don't care what has to burn down for what, what cost there is for the right thing to be done. Just do the right thing. If a guy, I mean, you see this how many times. Well, somebody could lose their ministry. Somebody could Lose their job. Somebody could lose their family. Somebody could. Like, again, as we just talked about this whole episode, consequences. Right. There are consequences for actions. And if those consequences aren't brought to bear, it's incentivized to keep going. And so when these things happen, if dad or grandpa has to go to jail, dad or grandpa has to go to jail, or if we're not going to go see grandpa again, so be it. Like, this is. You have to cut this off. And it's just sick to see that not happen. The other thing is, I kind of mentioned in the opener there, when that Shiny Happy People documentary came out, they did what they always do. This is they did the same thing with the. The Mars Hill podcast series.
Oh, here's this abuse and this terrible thing that happened and this other terrible thing that happened. This other terrible thing. And. And they also use this umbrella illustration of the headship of the family. And that just shows. And so we've given people go see all of these things all go together, this fundamentalism. And so we're just going to throw out the whole thing. It's like that there are plenty of people who hold to the umbrella view of headship that don't have this going on in their family or their church. Yeah, but a lot of dumb people get hoodwinked by that and go, oh, so anybody who teaches that must be doing something to children. Like, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Correlation does not equal causation.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Well, it's the same thing. Somebody went and saw one of these Hollywood movies in the last year or so, and they're like, it was about the Nazis. And it just. I couldn't believe how many parallels I was noticing to today. Like, that's why they made the movie Genius. They're telling you that today we've got Nazis in office. Like, good for you. You picked up on the subtext. I mean, like, the same thing with these. And so when it's like, oh, homeschool families, or people with more than three kids or people who go to fundamentalist churches or whatever else, like, or people who believe that the dad is the head of the household.
That's what happened.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: Documentary.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Like that. They're telling you that through the subtext of this is like, they have an ax to grind against this agenda. They found really horrible people that gave them the opportunity to do that. Don't let them do that to you. Like, come on now. And so anyway, yeah, it's.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: It's a great point.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, do we agree with them on, like, Homeschooling. Yeah. You know, I've. I didn't intend to have six kids by now, but the twins keep popping out, So I have six kids now.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Six. Go on.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: 19.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I've. Man, I don't. I don't think we can do 13 at a time, thankfully. So. Yeah. But I mean, so I have a bigger family and. Yeah, I'm gonna teach. I'm teaching currently a lot. And writing on male headship of the family. Does that mean I condone all of this stuff? No. Does this mean that I'm. I think they were normal people. No, not at all. And so, like, don't go for that. But, yeah, when I went back to. I want to just finish on that point I made a bit ago.
The consequences have to be brought to bear when you see this. We talked about this in church abuse. Oh, well, we'll just quietly let him go and he'll go be a youth minister elsewhere. No, no, no. Burn this guy's life to the ground or he will not stop.
You know, the consequences of not exposing sin when it needs to be exposed are just devastating. And that's what should have happened long ago here. And I'm just hoping all the way down that every single one of these gets caught and it gets rooted out. So, anyway, very, very sad story to end on, but lots to take from it. And the this, again is the Think Fast. The whole episode was on the very viral, controversial tweets about marrying someone with a checkered sexual past. So if you're catching the Think Fast, look out for that episode on Monday.
In any case, we're always here Mondays with Think Deeper, the Think Fast when we get to them on Thursday nights. And the deep end on Focus plus, our listener exclusive Q and A question every Thursday night or Friday.
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