Should Churches Acknowledge America 250?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:09] Speaker B: Welcome back into the Thing Deeper podcast presented by Focus Press. Will Harrop here, joined as always by Joe and Jack Wilkie. Excited to bring you another episode today, a special edition episode for sure. Before we get into that, wanted to say to all those who reached out and expressed their prayers and shared that they were praying for my dad with his recent health scare. We really appreciate that. It was quite the day last week. I was working and just kind of getting texts from my mom like, hey, pray for daddy, he's head to the hospital. Doesn't feel good. It feels like something's wrong. And then before I know it, as he posted on Facebook, the doctors found a pretty significant blockage that could have been a lot worse, could have done a lot more damage. But he is doing great. He is back home feeling, feeling great and has recovered really well. So appreciate everybody for reaching out, for expressing again your thoughts, your concern and your prayers. Wanted to kind of start by just giving everybody an update on that. It's quite the scare, but he's doing really well. And so, yeah, with that, guys, we're going to go ahead and get into the episode that we have planned for today. Last week we did the pretty light hearted Bible chapters draft that all three of us really, really enjoyed. I don't know how much our listeners did. Hopefully they enjoyed it as we did. But we've got a little bit of a balanced episode coming up today. So obviously at the end of this week we're kind of getting an early start, but we couldn't really do it afterwards. The end of this week is July 4th, America's 200 United States, 250th birthday celebration. It's a really big deal. It is crazy that our country is about to hit its 250 year anniversary, birthday, whatever you want to call it. And so we want to kind of structure our episode around that kind of. We've got some, some hard hitting questions that go along with that. Should churches acknowledge this? How big a deal is this? There's obviously anytime discussions of America's greatness or celebrating being patriotic come up, there is always some inevitable scolding I think is a good word or kind of looking down on, on kind of America's history and all that. And so we want to talk about that a little bit. And so yeah, a bit of a balanced episode. We're doing some fun stuff at the end and then we've got a think fast to cover about a very, very interesting news story that hit our timelines earlier last week. And so a lot to cover today, guys. Obviously, again, where I want to start, just as I kind of kick it to y' all to open the open the Show Here is 250 years of the United States of America. It feels like the celebration that this year, I know there's been some political drama with the Trump administration and the party they were trying to throw. Whatever it is. How big a deal is this and how much should we be talking about it, thinking about it? We'll set the church thing aside for just a second. On an individual level, as Americans, what are kind of yalls thoughts on how big a deal this is that we're about to hit the 250 year birthday of the United States of America? Joe, I'll hand it to you first. [00:03:19] Speaker C: Any. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Any thoughts as we kind of open it up? [00:03:21] Speaker A: I think it's huge. I think it's huge. I'm doing a big. Bought some shirts and things like that. Just make sure I'm. I'm nice and patriotic for the, the day itself. And yeah, you know, this is one of those things that I'm very much going to be pushing with the kids. We're going to be getting the sparklers, we're going to be getting some, you know, whatever we can. Luckily, we got to stand close. Will sell some fireworks to us. And so we're gonna do some of that. And yeah, that's typical. But I really want to sit down with the kids and help them realize this is a Christian nation. It's the greatest nation on earth. You know, we are very blessed to make it 250 years. We're praying for many more. We're praying for our leaders. And so, yeah, there's gonna be a Christian element to it, but this is really exciting. My kids love Liberty's kids. They've been watching through that. And man, just to see that, to me, this is a huge accomplishment as a nation. It's something to be very proud of, something that every Christian or every American rather, I think should be celebrating as much as we possibly can, because how many other nations can genuinely say we've made it 250 years and are still a world superpower? Not very many, if any at all. And so what a blessing. What a privilege to be an American. So I don't know. I'm doing it up big this year. I'm a big believer in making this as big of a deal as possible because 250 does not. It's the same as any anniversary. It does not come around every day. So pretty cool stuff. Yeah. [00:04:42] Speaker C: I mean, it is such a big number, 250. And you look at history, people make the claims about 250 years or as long as a lot of empires, a lot of great nations or whatever, they had their run. That was 250 years is what you get out of it. And I hope that's not the case. I would like to think we can turn it around from the direction it's going and move it in a better direction and last another 250. You never know. And what God is going to do with it and what we can do to bring his favor through faithfulness and all that. But it's also an inflection point. It is a time to look and be like, man, what is it going to take to make it another 250 years without collapse, without severe decline and things like that. And in the same way, New Year's Day with the resolutions or your birthday or whatever just really makes you think about where you are, where you've been, where you're going. Things like this can do that. And we are Americans. We are part of this. We are. This is. We live here. We contribute to this. We have to live here. We're raising our kids here. Our kids. And Lord willing, grandkids will. This is their home. This is where they will operate as Christians and all the things we want them to do. And so the prosperity of the nation we live in. And this is something in Jeremiah where they're going off to be exiles. And Jeremiah told them, work to the good of the city where you're exiled. A lot of Christians either. Well, we're exiles in this earth. We have no home here. Work to the good of the place where you live. And this is part of that, for sure. So hoping for and celebrating and just enjoying the benefits. There's so many angles to take there. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I've always had a interest, even when I was younger, in just U.S. history. And I never really cared for world history all that much, like the ancient Egyptians and the Cool. Let me let. Let me learn about the. About the American Revolution, the Civil War. Like, that's what I wanted to learn about as a kid. And I still share that. I still have kind of that just kind of passion, excitement. I think it's important for. Especially as all three of us are strong homeschool advocates. I think it's important to instill in kids, at the very least, a strong interest in history, a strong interest. They don't have to necessarily love it. And it's not going to be for everybody. But I think specifically for this particular year, this particular celebration, just this landmark of, again, 250, I think, making sure my kids are a little young, but if you have older kids, making sure you spend some time kind of just going back to, you know, what are the significant events of our history. Joe and I, we've got a Jolly Amen podcast episode coming out. I guess, if you're hearing this on Monday, coming out tomorrow, where we discuss kind of different events, the end of the episode, different United States, just events. And, man, we have a very rich history. Very rich history. Obviously, those first 15, 20 years of kind of breaking away from Britain and the founding of our country, it's really. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's really important that our kids at least have a pretty good grasp on that, particularly kind of the. As you get into the Civil War and some of the things in the 20th century. But at the very least, yes, our country was founded upon biblical principles. Founding fathers weren't perfect. A lot of them had a lot of mistakes. And it's become very in vogue these days to kind of chastise the Founding fathers for, you know, various mistakes that they made. But you read our founding documents, you go back and you read the history of our country, it's very clear that the principles in the Constitution, the principles that our country was built upon, are founded in God's word. And I think that's a very special thing that's important for kids to know as they're learning about history. [00:08:23] Speaker C: Let's talk about that. There's controversy around that dispute, debate about that, where people say America is a Christian nation or was founded as a Christian nation. And others will say, no, it wasn't because of X, Y or Z. Others will say, there's no such thing as a Christian nation. So where do you guys stand on that? Obviously, right now it is not where it was when it began. So to say it's a Christian nation now, like, you can. It has that DNA a little bit. I wouldn't call it a Christian nation. Now, was it founded as a Christian nation and is that possible? [00:08:53] Speaker B: I guess it's interesting. And this is maybe splitting hairs. I don't. I don't really use that phrase Christian nation necessarily. I tend to use it was founded on biblical principles. Splitting hairs. I mean, I don't, certainly don't get bit out of shape if somebody calls it a Christian nation or if somebody says, well, no, it's not. I think once again, just the principles of life, liberty, kind of equal rights and the pursuit of happiness and all those things. The founding of our country being on biblical principles, I think is indisputable. I think it's indisputable that most of the founding fathers were God believers. Some of them were deists, didn't believe that God operates the way that we would believe he operates. So there's that to consider. But whether or not it was, again, Christian nation, that's not necessarily a phrase I use, but I don't really have a problem with that. Joe, how about you? Where do you kind of fall? I mean, you used that phrase a second ago, so I assume that's what you would say. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think we're a Christian nation. The same way that you can look at Iran as an Islamic nation. Like, yeah, the overwhelming majority of people are going to be a specific way. And I don't want anybody going, well, Iran's made of war than Islam. Look, it's an Islamic nation. Everybody realizes it as such. Those are going to be the governing laws of the land. So do I think that America is a Christian? Well, yeah, especially as we were founded, it was a nation that, as you just said, like Christ was at the center. At least it was intended. And the average person in America, I'm not saying every person was, but the average person was Christian. [00:10:22] Speaker B: The same way that. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Right. There are people in Iran that are not Muslim. Now, that is a pretty small minority. But there are people that are not Muslim. Sure. There are people in America that weren't Christian at the time. Even now it is overwhelmingly Christian. And so do I think it's a Christian nation? Yeah, if we're going to use those. Those words and that as a definition, then, yes, I think so. Now, to your point, Jack, was it. This is where you get into the, I don't know, the interesting debates back and forth and I've heard compelling points on both sides of. Were the founding Fathers right to rebel and was it a. You know, how is. How can you have a Christian nation when they. [00:10:55] Speaker B: That's a tougher conversation, I feel like. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Which is a tougher conversation. How can you have a Christian nation when they are usurping Romans 13, you know, and submitting to the government and things like that? I think there's a million and one things at play. I've heard both sides. I'm not smart enough historically to really take a strong side on it. The one thing I always fall back on is I think God has blessed this nation significantly. I think we have risen to power for a reason. And I don't think that was in spite of God's best efforts to tell the Founding Fathers, those rabble rousers, to stop. I just don't think that's the case. I think the fact that we have succeeded and done as well as we have over the course of time would go to show in my opinion, that God did initially bless it. [00:11:37] Speaker B: Now some of those even if just say, and I'm again to echo, Joe, I'm no historian, but just the fact that we won the Revolutionary War, like that was not supposed to happen. You know, you talk about the, the greatest sports upsets of all time, right? The US Hockey team beaten. The Soviet Union becomes the top of the list. Like that was basically the United States, like we were not at all supposed to. In this ragtag group of colonists beating the, you know, the war machine that Britain produced, it's man people are gonna maybe, you know, push back on. But it's, it's those moments, it's, you know, moments that where if you read even after the Declaration of Independence, within the first decade of our country being in existence, it very easily could have folded if not for Washington's leadership. Like it did seem like to your point, Joe, that God had a hand of guidance, a hand of providence in, you know, the nation not just founding itself, but also maintaining and sustaining and not just immediately folding and you know, going back into the hands of Britain. Obviously the War of 1812 was less than, you know, half a century later. So I don't have a problem at all with that. With what you just said, Joe, about it seemed like God blessed it. I would even go as far as to say there was a providential factor to America's prosperity that just continued. [00:12:53] Speaker C: Yeah, measuring the fruits of anything is a pretty good practice. And well, you look at the things that rose up in the 1900s, evil, godless ideologies all went away pretty quickly or morphed into something else or whatever it may be. And so that America not just stuck around, but grew and expanded and succeeded and prospered and all the missionaries that have been sent and all the good works that have been funded and just the amazing things that have been accomplished. That's some really solid fruit to take from that. And I think that does start from acknowledging God. And it's the same thing you see in politics now. They're not going to be Christians like we want them to be all the time. They're not going to be ideologically right where we want them to be, or even morally always right where they want them to be. When you look at the Founding Fathers and some of their personal lives and things like that. But even giving lip service, even if they felt like they had to give lip service to Christianity, to the Bible, to God or whatever else, I mean, there's a letter of Lincoln's where one of his cabinet members or whatever is writing him. Like, you don't believe any of that stuff. One of his, like, Thanksgiving declarations or something like that. And he's like, yeah, basically, the people lap it up. And so basically I have to, like, I've got to throw him that bone. It's like, all right, so even if he personally isn't, the fact that he's constrained by it to some degree to acknowledge God externally, that's a good sign about the populace. You would wish that he actually believed it, but the fact that he feels the need to throw everybody that bone is a great thing. And so the more you have that, and there is some of that still today where, again, you'd rather them personally believe these things, but you also want to pressure them and have them feel, hey, the people care about this. And you still see this right where they, no matter who it is, has been president, will end their speech. God bless America. Like, you don't functionally, you don't believe in God at all. Like. And so. But they still need to do it. They still feel the need to do it. It's still important. And so as our nation grows away from that moral foundation and has been more over the last hundred years than ever before, you see the cracks starting to form, and that's what we're trying to repair. But the idea of a Christian nation or founded as a Christian nation, more so than any other nation that's ever been. I could say you could say that that's. That was the. Again in the DNA of the nation. It just baffles me, the Lipscombite view and the Anabaptist view, that's like a bad thing that. That wasn't supposed to happen. Anytime we talk politics, which we're not going to get too much into it here, but Psalm 2 talks about your rulers need to bow and pay homage or else it's going to go very poorly to them. It's good when the rulers of a nation do that, and it's great that we started that way, and I hope we keep doing it that way. [00:15:41] Speaker B: So let's bring in. Let's bring the church into this. That's kind of the first question that we've got on here is specifically for this celebration, should churches acknowledge it? Should this be. I don't think any of us are big fans of what's the Texas church [00:15:55] Speaker C: that does the First Dallas. Yeah, yeah. [00:15:59] Speaker B: First Baptist Dallas, with the, you know, [00:16:01] Speaker C: Freedom Sunday or whatever they call it, [00:16:02] Speaker B: American flags and the patriotism songs for their worship service. I don't think any of us are arguing for that. But to what extent should churches acknowledge this? A question I wanted to add on to it is, what is the response to Philippians 3, verse 20, talking about our citizenship being in heaven? Context of that is not really talking about kind of pushing aside your native land. That's not really what it's talking about. But it does make the point. Paul making the point, hey, our citizenship is in heaven. And so people will use that to kind of honestly detract from the idea that we need to take pride in our. That we need to be patriotic, that we need to take pride in being American. That again, well, our citizenship is in heaven. And so again, just kind of detract from that idea. So I know that's kind of two different questions, but that is a response a lot of. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Jack. [00:16:53] Speaker B: I know to your. Kind of the stuff that you put out there, a lot about Christian nationalism and stuff like that. So what are yalls thoughts on that from a church perspective and from our citizenship being in heaven? [00:17:03] Speaker C: Yeah, that's. You can have ranked loyalties, right. Your loyalty above anything else on this earth should be to God, then to your family. Then it just kind of goes out from there. But you can have a loyalty and a care and a concern for your own people, as Paul did in Romans 9, where he said, I wish I could be cursed for my kinsman according to the flesh. Right. His fellow Jewish people. He didn't say that about the Gentile people. Now, Paul cared deeply about the Gentile people. He laid his life on the line to convert them. But this, like, special care that he had for the Jewish people, because he was one of them and they were his people, that's okay. And so the idea that we don't have a people, that's just ridiculous. And it's funny to me that some of the people who espouse that idea root for sports teams. Why that one over another one? Well, because I'm from there. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Who cares? [00:17:56] Speaker C: You're not a citizen of this. You know, like, there's. You have those loyalties. You have a regional accent. You have your regional. Like, there's so much about that that you live out every day that you don't. Your citizenship might be in heaven, but you live here. And you, as I said, your kids are going to live here, your grandkids are going to live here. That counts for something, too. [00:18:17] Speaker A: I think that view of, you know, our citizenship is in heaven is one of the reasons why this country has gone way downhill. Well, we don't. Christians and politics don't mix. Like. Well, that's your problem is we should have mixed. And you do want Christian leaders. You do want Christian men rising up and making the decisions for this nation, because if they don't, godless leaders will, and we're there. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's a. I don't like that view of the citizenship being solely in heaven in terms of, like, it doesn't matter down here. Yeah, to your point, Jack, of course it is. Of course we are longing for the days of heaven. And, you know, but on the other hand, God put us here now for a reason. He put me here in America and had me born to my specific family for a very specific reason. I don't think it was just by pure accident. I think it's a blessing that I was born in America, and it's a blessing to get to serve this nation in whatever way I can, you know, to the best of my ability to make it as good of a nation as possible, because that's where I am. So, to your point, Will, or your question, like, should churches address it? I don't see how you wouldn't address it. I don't think you need again, the Freedom Sunday with, you know, singing Star Spangled Banner in. In the, you know, worship service on the other country. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Tis of the. [00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, it's always weird to have those in the songbooks, but whatever. But on the other hand, I would address most any major event. I. I think it's the same thing as 9, 11. Like, for those that are like, well, we're gonna be in, you know, we're gonna be in Micah chapter two today. Like, guys, do you have any idea what just took place? It's good to adjust and to say, man, everybody's mind is on 250. Let's talk about how we can be good citizens in America. Let's talk about how we can, you know, how we can turn this Christian or turn it back toward Christ and be more of a Christian nation again through evangelism and through rising up in the culture and making a difference. So I think this is an opportunity that churches should be cashing in on, you know, should be taken advantage of to have a really good conversation around what it means to be A Christian nation. [00:20:13] Speaker C: I wanted to tell you guys about my new ebook, Christ's co Rulers, Understanding Christian Political Engagement. Drawn from essays I've written over the last few years, but also featuring a number of new entries on some of the day's most pressing issues, like immigration, abortion, and addressing those that say that Christians shouldn't be involved in the political realm, and laying out the plan for how we can impact the world for good under the lordship of Christ. So check that out. You can get it on FocusPress, you can get on Amazon, or it is a perk for paying subscribers at jackwilkie Co. So pick up a copy of Christ's co Rulers on one of those platforms today. [00:20:50] Speaker B: All three of us are in the camp of when there's significant. When there's something significant going on in the culture, relating it to God's word in the best way possible. Especially with something everybody's minds are on. My mind did go to 9 11. Course I was too young to remember it. I was not even two yet. But you know, the. Just the concept of, you know, getting up on a Sunday. What day of the week did 911 happen? [00:21:15] Speaker C: It was a Tuesday. [00:21:16] Speaker B: Tuesday would have been a couple days later. But like just the thought of somebody getting up on a Sunday in front of their church and just not even mentioning it, it just doesn't compute like that. I cannot imagine that would have taken place. And so, you know, obviously that's a tragic thing, whereas this would be a celebratory thing. I do think it would be valuable to ment. One of the other things I was going to mention or to acknowledge it. One of the things I was going to mention. So I'm reading American Sniper right now by Chris Kyle, the late Chris Kyle. And it's very interesting in the book he. In his book he talks about how one of the conflicts that he had in his marriage is. [00:21:49] Speaker C: He viewed. [00:21:50] Speaker B: He viewed, you know, Charlie Kirk was God, family, country. This Chris Kyle guy viewed it as God, country, family, God first, country second, family third. And I think it's very important, Jack, as you talk about those rank loyalties, that you don't get it out of whack. I strongly disagree with God, country, family. I think it is God, family, country, in that order. And I think there are a lot of people who can get. Can get the loyalties out of. Out of whack. I think there's, sad to say, I think there's Christians who are more loyal to their college football team sometimes than they are to their Christianity. I think there's Christians that are more loyal to the fact that they are a strong, patriotic American than they are are to being a faithful Christian. Maybe not in Word, but certainly in action, certainly in the way that they live their lives. [00:22:38] Speaker C: And so they care about and invest in, like the news they consume versus their Bible time and things like that, for sure. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Right. And that's what the. Where the fruits of it come in. But I think, like, as long as you keep those priorities and the loyalties ranked well of God and your Christianity first, family second, I think country should be third. And I think that should be something that you absolutely should, you know, take pride in and celebrate. Because the other thing about the citizenship is in heaven, as I referenced earlier, that's not at all the context, if you look at the. The previous verses, because that verse 20 starts with the word, you know, starts with the word for our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await. So immediately he's contrasting what. Just what he just said in the previous verses. He's talking about those who are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, whose glory is in their shame, and set their mind on earthly things. When he says who set their mind on earthly things, he's not talking about, man, those people that put American flags in their front yard. Man, those people who shoot off fireworks to celebrate. No, he's talking about people whose lives center around themselves. Talking about people whose lives center around their pleasure. Their God is their belly, they glory in their shame, living wicked lives. That's the earthly. And he says, but instead, our citizenship is in heaven. And so I would just encourage anybody who might try to use that in this context to just keep it in the context that it's originally intended, which is, again, living for yourself, not necessarily a referendum on your native homeland kind of thing. So that would be kind of my answer to that. [00:24:09] Speaker A: I was curious. Jack, I was going to throw this back to you to pick your brain on. Let's say you're leading a church. How would you address this? Because I think we're all on the same page that we would address it to some degree. But what I mean, you were a preacher for 13. What was it, a long time? 10 years? Whatever it was, how would you go about addressing it? What do you think churches should. Like what. What should that look like? [00:24:32] Speaker C: If it were me, and obviously I'm not telling anybody what to do, but if it were me, I would talk about the. The good of nations honoring God and not. You don't have to take verses out of context, they're the ones people use of, you know, if my people who are called by my name will turn, I will heal their land or whatever. Yeah. And blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. I mean, that sounds good and it sounds like it's on the right track. But then in the second says the people whom chosen for his own inheritance. That's not really talking about countries in that same way. But you can go to Psalm 2, you can go to Jonah, I think is a great text for this. That was a pagan nation. That God was like, you guys need to get right. And they all did. He didn't look at it individualistically. He looked at it as this people needs to repent. And we see lots of peoples who needed to repent and get right with God and the glory and God's blessing. And this is all throughout the minor prophets of God's blessings or his punishments on entire people groups, nations, peoples and nations. This is part of the problem is A, we're so individualistic, B, because of the melting pot, we have divorced ourselves from the concept of nations as it is in the Bible. It was people, group, it was families, expanded. Right. We were just talking before we got on air about Genesis 10 and the table of nations that you can trace from that and from Noah's family. Basically all of the major people groups on the planet go back to Genesis chapter 10. And so nations was this family, this specific guy's people. Even if there's a million of them at that time, they are a people. And you can look at America. Well, we're just all the people. Okay, well, if you come here, you're part of it. And we're going to be judged as one. Therefore we got to kind of be one and view ourselves as one. And that's one of the, I think another anti immigration argument. We're not going to go down that road right now. But like God's going to judge the American people. The American people need to be the ones here making the decisions and doing things. And so you can talk about it of our responsibility as a nation, as a group of people and as Christians who operate within this nation and even have influence in this nation with the rights that we have, voting rights and involvement and things like that, an example, shining a light, all those things. But the blessing as well, the blessing of being that we're not under Rome, that we're not under Babylon, that we're not under those places. We're at a place that has afforded us so much breathing room. You can go to First Timothy 2. The blessing that that is they have let us live lead Christian lives in all godliness and dignity and quiet and tranquil lives. That's something we're supposed to pray for and we have it. [00:26:59] Speaker A: So that's great. [00:27:00] Speaker C: And so there's blessing and responsibility I think would be my major focuses if I had if I were talking about him. [00:27:08] Speaker A: That's a great point. That's a great point. There's so much that the Bible does say you can go back to the and you've done a good job with this Jack and shout out to our focus plus go back and check out our classes on Leviticus and numbers, Deuteronomy because we did get into some of these things there of just the laws of the nation, how they were set up. Yes, it's different than America but I think there's a lot of principles that can be taken and some of what you just said, I think there's so many touch points that a church could really get into about the nation about it being set up, about the blessings, about how we ought to show up. And so I don't know, I just think it's important to acknowledge it to some degree. [00:27:42] Speaker B: A point on this is and this goes for a lot of things but just because there are there is a section of the Church of Christ or Christian population that will take this way too far with the Freedom Sunday. And I think the Trump kind of the polarization that Trump brings has exacerbated this issue. But just because there are people that will just take it way their patriotism and the American thing way too far doesn't mean that we need to do away with patriotism completely. [00:28:11] Speaker A: I think that's swinging the pendulum back. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the trap that so many of these I'm just going to I hate to call them out, but I'm going to call them out. Church of Christ preachers fall into like well we can't can't brag on our country. Absolutely no Christian nationalism. And usually these people are anti Trumpers. So that that kind of is part of it. But you know, I think a lot of that is just a product of they see, you know, people that take it way too far. Well let's just do away with completely like you don't have to do that. There is a balance. There is a compromise. There is a again properly ranked loyalties. As Jack said earlier, there is a way in which we can celebrate this or acknowledge it or talk about the way the Bible speaks about a country that seeks After God, there is a way we can do that in a healthy manner without swinging it too far. But so often again, the trap we fall into, the Christians fall into is like, well man, the extreme is bad, so let's just completely do away with it. Completely. And I don't think that's a good thing. [00:29:08] Speaker C: One of the mistakes people make is making it to the church's success. And America's success are one in the same. And the better the church does, the better America does or the better America does. And you know, if America falls, then there won't be a church. You know, like, don't say that, that's ridiculous. But then I've seen people overcorrect the other way and go, God doesn't care about America. Yes he does. Just open your go to BibleGateway.com and search the word nation. It's a bunch of times in the Bible and even all the way to the end, Revelation, New Testament, not just Old Testament, New Testament as well. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Nations have always mattered. [00:29:42] Speaker C: Nations have always mattered. I mean the Great Commission is about nations, like going to the nations. Right? And so, and the other thing about that, going back to Joe's point about the fruits, because the other you brought up, the citizenship is not inherited, is in heaven. The other one is my kingdom is not of this world. His kingdom's not of this world, like, but it's in this world. It's here to take over this world. And now you see the fruits of where it changes. A nation full of people in which his kingdom has held influence. And again, all of the cures for diseases, all the technological advances, all of the missionaries sent, all the, the strength of the church. [00:30:17] Speaker B: Slavery being abolished. [00:30:18] Speaker C: Millions of people. Yeah, slavery being abolished, the millions of people in church buildings and like the things that the world has never seen before. We go, oh, that's bad. That wasn't supposed to happen because his kingdom is not of this world. It's ridiculous. You're just left in a ridiculous place. As I've said before, the funniest thing in the world to me in a very annoying, frustrating, angering way, but it's ironic is the guys standing up there on a Sunday morning in an air conditioned building with police and security out front and a building that cost over a million dollars and people. Yeah, in a suit. Well, no, these guys don't wear a suit. They wear the quarter zip now, you know, and up there like glasses. [00:30:59] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:30:59] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker C: Saying God doesn't care about this country and we don't need to be carnally minded like, and. And that basically we shouldn't want Christian governance. Like, really, what's your salary? What was the salary of, you know, the preachers in. And where was the salary of preachers in China right now, buddy? I mean, like, don't give me that. And, and so this kind of comes all the way back full circle to say, give thanks for what we have. Like, celebrate this and say, this is great and tell your kids we got something here that other people just don't have, and we are not taking it for granted. And it is because of God's providence. But, I mean, go back and read the. Not just the founding documents, but the Mayflower Compact and all that. The idea of God's blessings on this nation and the city on the hill, that they wanted this nation to do that because they read it in the Bible. Like, this is really cool. And. And so don't be afraid of it in that sense. [00:31:53] Speaker A: What a great wrap on the episode, fellas. I think we're about ready to. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Well, Jack, that was perfect podcasting too, of Jack. Just dropping an incredible section there. And also the subtle dig. Like, those guys wear quarter zips. They don't wear suits. Like, it's just perfect. [00:32:07] Speaker C: It's true is what it is. People know what I'm talking about. [00:32:10] Speaker B: So, Jack, go ahead, Joe, looks like you. No, no, no, you're good. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Just say you're good. [00:32:13] Speaker B: I was gonna say you've got on here, Jack, the woke scolding, which I think is different. Well, it certainly is different than kind of the Church of Christ, anti Christian nationalism rant that people go on. [00:32:25] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:26] Speaker B: Speak to that a little bit and kind of what direction. As we got a few minutes left here before we get to a bit more of the lighthearted stuff here at the end, what did you have in mind? Talking about the kind of the woke scolding of America. [00:32:36] Speaker C: Yeah, there's the difference between. Everything we've been just talking about has been. We're not supposed to celebrate the country, no matter how good, bad or otherwise it is. And this is. There's nothing to celebrate. This is awful. Like, this is. And. And so you'll hear slavery brought up, you'll hear the trail of tears. Oddly enough, these people don't talk as much about abortion. Like, the. The current thing that's going on, that is the albatross on our neck or gay marriage and the Obergefell, the transient. Things like that. Yeah, I mean, like, that's not. It's the historical stuff and, oh, you know, all the bad things our nation's done, like. Yeah, it has. We are people. Everybody who came before us has sin. In the books, you know, that was. Defended things they shouldn't have done or whatever the case may be. Your ancestors weren't evil. We've talked a lot before about judging the past on our current view of things, and. Oh, man, if I were there. No, if you were there, you'd be going along with it. You'd be doing what everybody else was because they all were. That doesn't make it right, but it does mean, you know, have a little bit more grace for them. But number two, that because there is sin, because there were bad things done in a nation's history, that you can't celebrate it. That's not true. That's not. Imagine going to your grandfather's funeral and, like, you're only allowed to focus on the things he did wrong in life. A guy that did all kinds of good stuff and blessed you immensely, but he did do so much. [00:34:00] Speaker B: That'd be the majority of people. Everybody kind of go ahead. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Even worse. Going to his birthday and doing it right. [00:34:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, right. [00:34:08] Speaker A: Well, Grandpa, because you used to do this when you were 17 years old, boy, there's not much cake in the trash. Yeah, exactly. Like we shouldn't be celebrating you. You're a jerk. Come on. It's. It's ridiculous. It is one of those that. Yeah, there. We can talk about a checkered past. It is by the grace of God that we've come through. We did abolish slavery. I mean, there's. I'm not saying that what was done in the past was great. We're not. We're not trying to say that everything was perfect. No country's history is perfect. Christianity still has reigned supreme throughout this country, unlike any other nation on earth, where they were literally doing human sacrificing until not all that long ago. And so to me, looking back 200 years, 150 years, whatever, and some people say, well, it's been in my lifetime, yes, there has been racism within the lifetime. And that goes both ways. There's a lot of racism going on right now that I don't know if we're allowed to get upset about of what's taking place. And so I think racism goes both ways, and it's not good. It's something that Christianity needs to flat out condemn when we see it from either side. But that's the difficulty is the atrocities, to your point, about abortion and such, the atrocities that are taking place currently in our culture, nobody wants to speak to and it's like that's the thing that we can actually control. I cannot go back and control what took place 200 years ago. I wish we could, but you know what? It can't happen. We're trying to do what we can right now. And what we're doing right now, the same people pushing this that, you know, trying to reprimand us for the past and get reparations for the past are the same people that are pushing, in a lot of ways, agendas that are destroying the very present. And so, I don't know, it's one of those that. I think it. Staying stuck in the past as a nation is a really bad thing. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's one of the things that I was going to say, which essentially, when people have this take of, you should not be proud of America's history and, you know, we shouldn't celebrate it. It's a slavery and racism take. Obviously, I know they bring in the Native Americans as well, casting aspersions on guys like Columbus, and there's that as well. But it's primarily talking about slavery. It's primarily talking about the racism that our country has seen, as if most of the other countries in the world haven't had the exact same issue. But, Joe, what you said is exactly what I wanted to point out, which is, what good does dwelling on that and making that the central focal point or making that the focal point of the conversation. What good does that do? Like, yeah, man, our country, man, it was really bad 160 years ago, or even the 60s or, man, it was really bad. Okay, we're not there anymore. [00:36:40] Speaker C: Like, we're. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Well, we never learned our lesson. That's what they'll say. We've never learned our lesson. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Right. Which is just to forgive. Forgive this pejorative. It's a low IQ take when you consider everything that our country offers now, the. How far we've come. You remember. Do you guys remember, I think it was earlier this year that the Billie Eilish thing at the Grammys where she said, no one is illegal on stolen land. It was kind of an ice dig. And then the critics pointed out that, like her Los Angeles mansion or whatever was. Was built on the. The foreign, former tribal grounds or whatever, or some kind of Native American people. Just the irony in that. But I guess my point in it is, what good does that do? This goes back to when Kaepernick was kneeling for the anthem 10 years ago. The start of that controversy is like, what does that do? Genuinely? What is the. I guess for him it was trying to raise awareness, trying to point out like, okay, whatever. But that's what frustrates me about this woke scolding thing is, okay, so you're saying we shouldn't celebrate it, so what should we do about it? Just kind of just be gloomy about it, Just sit and not do anything about the celebration of our country. Like, it seems like it's a dwelling in the past. It's a very pessimistic view of the country. And it's also, to me represents a kind of lack of understanding of grace. Yes, Our ancestors made mistakes. Yes. There are a lot of things in our country that I wish were not the case. Abortion being a primary one right now, that's been illegal for going on 60 years now. And so that's, that one's frustrating to me just from the man. It's just dwelling in the past and not, it's not, it's not productive. It's not a productive conversation from my perspective. [00:38:19] Speaker C: It's taking advantage of good hearted people who do look at someone go, that's terrible, I'm sorry that happened. Like, I'm not proud of that or whatever. But it will never be let go. There's not a point at which it's like, all right, we're square, let's move forward. Yeah. Because it's an upper hand. It's, it's a permanent upper hand. [00:38:35] Speaker B: Moral high ground. [00:38:36] Speaker C: Yeah. And so that's, it's, it's not legitimate. It should not be taken as legitimate. And the other thing is there's biblical precedent for this. Israel did all kinds of awful stuff in the Old Testament. God still wanted them to celebrate and you know, the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread and things like the Feast of Booths. The Feast of Booths remembered the time they were out wandering in the wilderness. That didn't go all that well, if you remember. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:58] Speaker C: Like, that was not a great time in their history. They celebrated it every year. They like. And you remember some things with it and you remember, hey, some things didn't go great. But on the other hand, they as a people weren't constantly browbeating themselves into, wow, you know, we, there's nothing to celebrate as being Israel and they didn't have that. And that's okay. You know, God wants you to, or wanted them to celebrate the good and his choice of them as his people. And not that America is a parallel to Israel perfectly, but the idea being you don't have to just constantly dwell on the bad to like get somebody's approval. And I think that's been one of the biggest things is like trying to get the Internet's approval, trying to get the approval. People who are never going to give it to you just get over it and let it go. And so yeah, we don't need to do the woke scolding thing for this 250. Everybody knows there were things that everybody can dig out, things not to be proud of. But on the whole, like we said Grandpa's birthday, we're not going to dwell on the negatives. We're going to dwell on the great things that he has done. Hey folks, I wanted to tell you about a couple of books from our friends over at Cobb Publishing, Holy Me and Grow Up. Holiness is frequently ignored or minimized, but in Holy Me, Paul Clements shows that it is at the center of the Christian Life. This simple 13 lesson study explains what holiness is, how we get it, and why it matters. Designed for both personal and Bible class study, this book will both encourage and challenge you to greater levels of dedication to God and Christian. His latest book, Grow up is a simple 13 lesson study on spiritual growth designed to help Christians understand the what, the why and the how of becoming a mature Christian. Both Holy Me and Grow up are available from Amazon.com and Cobb Publishing. So with that we've got a few fun things to do and then one if we have time, think fast before we get out of here. Where do we want to start with this? Let's just throw out a things I was gonna say. [00:41:03] Speaker A: I got, I got a couple questions and questions. I think it'd just be fun. I was thinking about this earlier. What is your favorite American moment and you personally that you've had favorite or like yeah, yeah. Fourth of July moment or just a moment where you were really proud to be an American? Maybe you remember being somewhere and watching something that really encapsulated your American spirit, throwing it out there. [00:41:32] Speaker B: I didn't prep you guys way more years of this. [00:41:37] Speaker C: That's true. [00:41:38] Speaker A: It might take him a second to figure it out. [00:41:39] Speaker C: This is the guy who said, yeah, he was 2 when 9, 11 happened or whatever. Oh yeah. Okay. There was the time in San Diego this when it goes viral every now and then you said quirky moments that they have a great fireworks show. We were there in San Diego one year and they accidentally shot off all of them at once at the same time. Yeah, on the barge lasted about 30 seconds and that was it. So that was a pretty great Americana moment, but I don't know what else. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Joe, what do you Got. [00:42:10] Speaker A: I remember being in Seattle, and this was when. This is before. Yeah, before Alyssa and I were married. But, you know, we were courting at the time, and, yeah, I remember going there. This was. I think we were engaged, actually, if I'm thinking about the right time, we were engaged and across the water. And it was just one of those amazing moments. Like, the girl that I'm engaged to, my family was there in Seattle in a different place, seeing across the water, Space Needle in the back, and these huge. I mean, it was one of the coolest Fourth of July moments ever. And so, yeah, I remember that one being pretty good. [00:42:44] Speaker B: We got to be in D.C. for a July 4th, me and my family, and we got to be on the Mall. You're on the National Mall, and getting to see all that stuff, get to tour the Capitol. So that's more of just a personal thing of just kind of being there. Just the surreal nature of, wow. I'm in the exact location that is the central heart of American history. And so, yeah, not quite as cool as the fireworks, but being in D.C. for July 4th is pretty special. [00:43:18] Speaker A: Well, there's been a few moments walking around Boston where you're just like, whoa. I remember walking into Independence hall in Philadelphia. [00:43:24] Speaker C: Mm. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Like, you know, just as you walk up to that, you know, the. It's. [00:43:28] Speaker B: You see, that's where they start, right? [00:43:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're just in. If you have not. If you're a listener and you have not, you know, done any of that. Been. Been back east, as everybody says, Whether you've been there or not. Back east is what everybody says, you know. But if you're not gone to the east coast, make a trip, special trip, specifically to Boston, I think is amazing with the freedom Trail that they have there. Plymouth is amazing. I mean, there's so many cool things to see, but it really makes you proud to be an American as you're looking at Paul Revere's house or, you know, you're going to Independence hall or whatever it may be in Philly there. And so D.C. obviously, a million and one great things to do. So, yeah, just. Man, it is great to be an American. There are a million and one things about this nation that I love, and I think that's great. So, Will, you'd asked a question, you would put one down. What's your favorite thing about being an American? And I guess I'll go first on this one, because I asked the last one. Sorry. The favorite thing about being an American, I love that the rest of the world is Envious of us. And this is coming out in the [00:44:28] Speaker C: World cup character syndrome. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Yeah, well, legitimately, I love that this is the place that everybody and their dog wants to get to. I am proud to be an American because when you look around the rest of the world, everybody else goes, man, that's the spot. And again, you're seeing this with the World Cup. Look at all the social media posts from all of the people from around the, you know, around the world coming to America going, ha, this is the Holy land. This is incredible. This is everything, you know, like, they love it. They go to a Texas roadhouse and their mind is absolutely blown because the world can't fathom that. They can't fathom Costco's, they can't fathom BUC EE's, they can't fathom all of these things. Like, it just breaks their. Their European brain when they come over here. I love that. I think it's amazing that, you know, America is a place that, again, all the immigrants want to get here. Whether it's illegal or not, people want to be in America because it's where things are happening. [00:45:16] Speaker B: Because we're the greatest. [00:45:17] Speaker A: We're the greatest. We're just the greatest. We're on top. And if we weren't all the people that try to browbeat us, no, we're not the greatest nation. Tell that to millions of people trying to come in our borders every year. Clearly they think we're the greatest. So I don't know. I'm proud of that. [00:45:30] Speaker B: I've got a serious answer and maybe less serious answer. One of my favorite things about being an American is our capitalistic society. Just the fact that essentially what is valued most by the most people generates the most revenue. I love that. Like, if you want to go make a lot of money, figure out what people value and go try to produce it or figure out how to add value. [00:45:54] Speaker C: Meet the need. Yeah. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Meeting people's needs, adding value to society gives yourself the ability to provide for your family. Is it perfect? No. But I do love that about America, is that, you know, you can go build your own success essentially based on the value that you can add, the value that you can provide what other people value. And then the less serious. We just have the best food and the best sports culture. We just do. I mean, American football. The world can't seem to fathom that. The food. A lot of people might disagree with the food. Take I've been to a lot of different countries. We do just have the best food. And so those are some of my top reasons, I would say, yeah, I [00:46:33] Speaker C: just say the American spirit, like, the go and do. And this is something you've seen with the World cup, too, of people saying, you know, why do the Americans think they can win this thing? They're like, we're Americans. We could. We think we can win anything. And whether they can or they can't. But that. That attitude. I mean, even I know a landscaping guy here in town, and he just. He worked a regular job. He's like, I'm gonna, you know, start a landscaping business, and I'm gonna get a truck and. And put my name on the side. I'm gonna get it wrapped with the paint and all that, and I'm gonna get uniforms that look like this. I'm gonna do all this. And now he had. Like, two years later, he's done it. Like, he just. And, yes, that happens some all over the world, but this is the capital of that. You know, this is the home of that mindset of, hey, just thought, this is what I want to do with my life. And then he went and did it like that. That's really cool. And that's. You don't understand how American that is until you go other places. And I remember being in another country, and they were like, their life goal, honestly, it was basically like, well, maybe someday we'll get saved up enough to go on a trip to New York or Disney World. Like, wow. [00:47:36] Speaker B: That was the objective. [00:47:38] Speaker C: Yeah. That's sad. So anyway, like, the. The ceiling. The sky's the limit, I guess what I'm trying to say. [00:47:44] Speaker A: So that's kind of what I'm getting at. Yeah. I'm not trying to do the main character syndrome as much as it's. [00:47:48] Speaker C: No, but I mean, like, it's. [00:47:49] Speaker A: It's. It's. We're the greatest one. [00:47:51] Speaker B: We are the main character of the world, too. [00:47:53] Speaker C: There's one other thing on the main character. You'll see people sometimes like, well, you were just lucky to be born there. Like, I literally couldn't have been born anywhere else. Look at my DNA. I'm here because of parents and grandparents and all that, like, who were here, who also helped build this thing. This thing is, like, you know, that. That is theirs, and I am their kid, and I'm the kid of people who were a part of this and fought for it and did all these things for it. That's pretty cool. It's not just dumb luck. [00:48:18] Speaker A: I know we got to get going on this, too, but this is fascinating because you and I were talking about this the other day, Jack, American spirit exists because the people that came over to America risked their life and risked literally everything to get here, whereas everybody else was too scared to get on the boat. Like, there just is an element to that. And honestly, and this is no offense to people in the Midwest, there's a lot of great people in the Midwest. I think there's a level of people that settled in Kansas and the settlers in Oklahoma and places like that. There's a reason California has a specific area. Now, California is as liberal as anything. And there's a lot of parts of California that I hate. But there's a reason California has the Gold Rush mindset. And it's because. And even people in Denver where there's just a little hard ear, the cowboy spear, you look at the nation and how it broke up as to who decided to just quit when and who was willing to go through really difficult mountains, the Rocky Mountains, to get to the other side because there's gold on the other side. Same concept of people coming all the way across the sea. There's a reason Americans, the American experience, the American spirit exists because they were willing to leave their home country, very much like Abraham to go to the promised land, basically. Yeah. That's something to be really proud of as an American. To say our ancestors did do this and we can trace it and I know you can. Will obviously as William Bradford, go all the way back to the Mayflower. Like, how cool that we get to think about that as Americans. We came over here when other people didn't have the guts. I'm proud of that. Sorry. [00:49:42] Speaker B: Great take. [00:49:42] Speaker A: I'll get out of the soapbox. All right, let's get to some blind rankings. [00:49:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So we like doing this from time to time, usually on the year end episodes or the Christmas holiday episodes. So this one certainly qualifies. Each of us have a blind ranking that we're going. That we're going to do. I. Let's see who's doing what. I think I'm blind ranking American achievements. Joe is blind ranking American landmarks, and Jack is blind ranking American states. So if you're here for the takes and the serious level stuff, feel free to join us next week. We're about to have about 10, 15 minutes worth of fun. Hopefully you'll stick around. Joe, do you want to go first with the landmarks? I've got my list right in front of me. [00:50:27] Speaker A: Sure, sure. I'm terrible. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Okay. All right, so American, American landmarks here. List of 10. You ready to go? [00:50:38] Speaker A: Okay, ready. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Yellowstone National Park. [00:50:43] Speaker A: Harrison Would kill me if I had this any lower than all the buffaloes. [00:50:47] Speaker C: Buffalo, yeah. [00:50:48] Speaker B: Three. [00:50:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:51] Speaker B: It's amazing. Statue of Liberty. [00:50:55] Speaker A: Why'd I put that at three? [00:50:57] Speaker B: The tough thing about landmarks is there's not really any bad ones. [00:51:00] Speaker A: I know. [00:51:01] Speaker C: Do you have, like, the world's biggest ball of yarn or one of those things on here? [00:51:06] Speaker A: Statue of Liberty. How can I put it under Yellowstone? That's. Oh, man, I can't believe I'm taking. I can. I should go back and re rank Yellowstone, but I'm gonna say two. [00:51:18] Speaker B: You're two and. Wow. [00:51:20] Speaker A: I know. Two and three being taken is terrible. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Niagara Falls. [00:51:24] Speaker A: I've been there. It's all right. It's half Canadian, basically. So I'm gonna say nine. [00:51:28] Speaker C: Knocked it down a few. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Wow. The Golden Gate Bridge. [00:51:34] Speaker A: That's a four. That would be up there. [00:51:39] Speaker B: I wasn't sure if you've been here, but I love that. I definitely want this one to list Arlington National Cemetery. [00:51:45] Speaker A: I don't think I've ever been to Arlington. [00:51:49] Speaker B: I can remove that. I've got an honorable mention here. Since you've never been. That's the tomb of the Unknown Soldier. [00:51:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's got to be. I can't put it lower than five. I can't put it number one, but five. [00:52:01] Speaker B: So you're two. Three. [00:52:02] Speaker A: Two, Three, four, five, and nine. I know this. This is bad. I don't really hate Moshmore. I like Mount Rushmore. Okay, so nobody at me here. Nobody get mad at me. But I don't know. It's. It's in the middle of nowhere, and South Dakota is just a little tough. I can't help. [00:52:21] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:52:22] Speaker A: 8. Can't help but what? [00:52:25] Speaker B: I can't help but think of the Parks and Rec episode where they drive to the Grand Canyon and Chris Pratt's character goes, where's all the. So Mount Rushmore? [00:52:36] Speaker A: A. [00:52:37] Speaker B: So you've got 1, 6, 7, and 10 left. The White House. 7, 7, 1, 6, and 10 remaining. Times Square. [00:52:56] Speaker A: Six. [00:52:58] Speaker B: So one in ten times is. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Is a sight, man. Times Square is pretty cool. [00:53:02] Speaker B: That's what everybody wants to come to the Grand Canyon. [00:53:07] Speaker A: I knew. How can I put Grand Canyon at 10? I hate to do it. And, man, you better not give me some garbage. One at number one. The. The biggest ball of yarn. I'm gonna have to put green canyon at 10. And the only reason is. This sounds so cheesy. I know. This sounds so cheesy. It's. It's unbelievable. It. It's breathtaking. It Also is a hole in the ground. [00:53:34] Speaker C: You didn't just say that. [00:53:37] Speaker A: There are other canyons in the world. Okay. Other really big canyons in the world. No, I mean, Grand Canyon is fantastic. I don't know what number. [00:53:44] Speaker B: Okay. Are you holding out for something? Like, did you think. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Are you. [00:53:48] Speaker B: Is there something that you think I'm gonna say? [00:53:50] Speaker A: I didn't even think of half of these. And so by the time you get there, it's like, what? [00:53:53] Speaker B: My last one is the Washington Monument, which I don't think deserves to be. [00:53:56] Speaker A: Okay, let's swap those. Let's do. Let's do Grand Canyon. Okay, well, when we go back to what we'll swap. We'll swap grand. [00:54:02] Speaker B: So Joe's list is Washington Monument, 1, followed by Statue of Liberty at 2, Yellowstone National park at 3, Golden Gate Bridge, 4, Arlington National Cemetery, 5, Times Square, 6, White House, 7, Mount Rushmore, 8, Niagara Falls, 9, and the Grand Canyon, 10. [00:54:19] Speaker A: That's. That's rough. [00:54:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:24] Speaker C: Painted yourself into a corner there, buddy. [00:54:27] Speaker A: You were. [00:54:27] Speaker C: I knew you were taking up too many high spots there, but I couldn't really. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I wasn't going to throw any, like, bad ones out there. Grand Canyon calling it a hole in the ground. Crazy take. [00:54:38] Speaker A: Grand Canyon is amazing, but at the end of the day, it is a geological structure that is incredible. But it's not. I mean, I don't know. It is more. [00:54:47] Speaker B: Look, and maybe there's a difference. [00:54:50] Speaker A: There's a difference between, like, okay, God created the Grand Canyon because of a great flood. There's also one in South Africa. There's one around. You know, there's multiple around the world. It is not the same, but still it is. I don't think it's number 10 for sure, but I don't think it's number one either. I think when you're talking American landmarks. Yeah. I mean, I don't think Washington Monument should be number one, either. I don't know. I don't know what I'd put at number one. Grand Canyon is very, very cool. All right, all right, all right. I will give the jack. I'm gonna give you states if that works. [00:55:26] Speaker C: All right. [00:55:27] Speaker A: Unless you want to give will. [00:55:29] Speaker C: No, go ahead. [00:55:30] Speaker A: All right, let's blind rank states first. Georgia. [00:55:35] Speaker C: How many do I have? 10. Oh, my goodness. I only came up with five of my list. Georgia. I like peaches a lot. So let's go. I don't know, seven. Sorry. Georgia. Not a big Bulldogs guy. [00:55:49] Speaker A: Florida, [00:55:53] Speaker C: four. [00:55:53] Speaker B: It's a great state. [00:55:56] Speaker A: Massachusetts. [00:55:59] Speaker C: Man, this is hard because, like, Currently, it's not a great place. The history though is incredible. How much comes from there has come from there. 5. And what is my metric? Is it like current, like places to visit? I mean, like just best states. [00:56:16] Speaker A: Just best states. [00:56:18] Speaker C: Okay. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Five, Whatever you want. [00:56:20] Speaker B: So his one, two and three are still open, right? [00:56:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:22] Speaker A: One, two and three. Yeah. So four, five and seven are taken. Texas. [00:56:25] Speaker C: Oh man, it's gonna be top three. I do. I. I lived there for nine years. I kind of want to make it number one [00:56:42] Speaker B: because you don't know what else he's including on this list of South Dakotas. On the list. [00:56:47] Speaker C: I mean, I like. I'd want to put Colorado number one, but it's for. There's a lot of reasons it's hard to put above. Okay, let's give it one. Texas gets Texas at one. [00:56:55] Speaker B: Wow. [00:56:56] Speaker A: Colorado, Colorado. [00:56:58] Speaker C: Two. Sorry. Home Satan. Tennessee. Oh, three. There you go. That's great. [00:57:03] Speaker A: Ah, okay. [00:57:04] Speaker C: The three places I've lived. One, two, three. I like the way this is working out. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I should have, should have done a different California. [00:57:11] Speaker C: Oh man, that should be higher than Florida. Whoops. Six. [00:57:16] Speaker A: Okay, so what's open still? [00:57:19] Speaker C: Eight, nine, ten. I'm okay with that. I mean, you might have New York on there or whatever, but New York. Yep. Eight. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Oklahoma. [00:57:29] Speaker C: Niagara. Yeah. Oh, that's not nice. That's. [00:57:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Shout out. [00:57:36] Speaker C: A lot of family in Oklahoma and my in laws, my sister fan. Big Thunder sports there yet. Sooners too, huh? Sure. [00:57:45] Speaker B: Boomer. [00:57:47] Speaker C: Boomer. Sooner. Nine. [00:57:55] Speaker A: Okay. It worked out for you. I had Iowa. I was gonna see if you. [00:57:57] Speaker B: Sure. [00:57:58] Speaker C: Yeah. I'd put Iowa behind Oklahoma. Sorry to all of our Iowa listeners. And you know, I spoke in Des Moines a few years ago and I was shocked. I loved it. It was great. So Iowa. Not a bad place either. Yeah, there's. There's a very few that'll be like, I hate that place. Put it all the way at the bottom. So this is good. That worked out. [00:58:16] Speaker B: I hear you only have five things for me to rank. [00:58:19] Speaker C: I can, I can throw another one or two on there. Let's see. [00:58:23] Speaker A: Lame. [00:58:25] Speaker B: There's just not that many achievements, I guess. [00:58:28] Speaker C: I mean, I don't know. I was trying to think of like a really lousy one. I did throw like some things. [00:58:33] Speaker A: Add the ones on that you had earlier. Just don't tell them where they are. [00:58:35] Speaker C: Okay. [00:58:35] Speaker B: I would have been interested while he's maybe putting some more on the list. Just to stall for a second. Joe and I, I think I mentioned earlier we have a Episode coming out this week, Jim podcast, where we kind of talk about similar stuff, but we do some blind rankings. The American events was a very interesting blind ranking. I'm trying to remember. I think I have the list somewhere here. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that was interesting. [00:58:57] Speaker B: Let's see here. Yeah. Like the Emancipation Proclamation, Lewis and Clark, Expedition 9 11. We ranked it based off of significance the way that we did it. So there's a lot there. [00:59:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I had a few of those, and I kind of thought it might overlap with that, so. [00:59:14] Speaker B: All right. What you got? [00:59:15] Speaker C: All right. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. All right. Achievements. [00:59:21] Speaker B: The just based off of significance. Importance. [00:59:24] Speaker C: Yeah. The transcontinental railroad. [00:59:32] Speaker B: Pretty significant achievement. I'm gonna go. Oh, man, this feels low. I'm gonna go four. [00:59:38] Speaker C: Four. All right. The invention of the Internet. [00:59:45] Speaker B: Wow. Pretty significant. Be like Joe and burn up some of my higher spots. Although I guess there's only seven. I'm gonna go with three for the Internet. [00:59:57] Speaker C: All right. The first flight. The Wright brothers. [01:00:04] Speaker B: Revolutionary for sure. I'll go 2. [01:00:12] Speaker C: Hey. The victory of the Revolutionary War. Underdog. 1. As you brought up. [01:00:18] Speaker B: See how. I don't see how that can't be number one, but. Oh, man, I should have left me. Left myself some spots. Yeah, that's definitely number one. So my one through four is used. [01:00:29] Speaker C: Okay. The building, the Panama Canal. [01:00:36] Speaker B: Okay. I'm glad that I did not save a spot for that. I'm gonna go. I mean, that's. That's a big deal. I'll go six. The Panama can. [01:00:43] Speaker C: All right, so I have five and seven left. The alleged moon landing landings. [01:00:51] Speaker B: Well, yeah, seven. [01:00:56] Speaker C: You're dropping that to seven? [01:00:57] Speaker A: No way. [01:00:58] Speaker B: I mean, I only have five and seven left. [01:01:01] Speaker C: Well, that's right. Okay, man, that's rough. [01:01:03] Speaker B: I only have five and seven. [01:01:05] Speaker C: All right. I threw one curveball in there. So at number five is the unveiling of the new Cracker Barrel logo. [01:01:12] Speaker B: Are you kidding me? Well, it does come in ahead of the alleged moon landing, I suppose. [01:01:19] Speaker C: The moon landing in the Panama Canal and the Cracker Barrel redesigns. [01:01:24] Speaker B: That is a curveball. [01:01:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Now, I was trying to think of, like, lousy ones. Like, what is a goofy achievement? Like, that's kind of hard to come up with. So let's go some ridiculous. So there you have it. [01:01:34] Speaker B: Well, I like my top four, then. Revolutionary War, Wright brothers, Internet and Transcontinental Railroad. [01:01:38] Speaker C: That's pretty solid. Yeah. Your barrel logo. All right, so that's our blind ranks. Always a fun time for us. Hope it was for you guys, too. Achievements, events, states. If don't get mad at me for the state rankings. I know I was kind of mean to some of your states, but it is what it is. So I would get mad at me [01:02:00] Speaker A: for a Grand Canyon, okay, no, no. [01:02:02] Speaker C: It was a hole in the ground. Everybody give Joe the business about the Grand Canyon. For goodness sakes, man. [01:02:07] Speaker A: Hey, we didn't just walk up into the Statue of Liberty and it was already created from God. Like, it was not a. [01:02:13] Speaker B: So you're saying it was. So you're saying man's creations are more impressive than God's creations. [01:02:18] Speaker A: Like even things like Yellowstone, you have to upkeep it. You have to help the animals. Right? But I'm saying, like, yes, it may be a God given area and Yellowstone is beautiful and is amazing, but all of the animals that are there and things like that, like, there's a lot of people, park rangers and such, making that what it is. Who makes the Grand Canyon what it is? Like, it is amazing and it's incredible. But at the end of the day, it is. [01:02:46] Speaker C: I don't get why natural beauty is disqualifying, but I mean, I don't know. That's a great feature our nation has. I. I don't know. Make of it what you will. Joe thinks the Grand Canyon's terrible, so [01:02:57] Speaker A: I think it's a ten. I just thought it's a one. [01:03:00] Speaker C: Okay, there you have it. Any final thoughts, guys? [01:03:04] Speaker B: Thanks for listening, everybody. Enjoy the. Enjoy the celebration. [01:03:07] Speaker C: Indeed. [01:03:07] Speaker A: Ran out of time for a think fast. [01:03:09] Speaker C: So, yeah, we went a little. Sorry about that. But yeah, do the celebration big. Give thanks, praise God, pray for our nation to correct what needs to be corrected. There's certainly many things there. But that, that, yeah, that it would turn to God and that our leaders would. I mean, there's just. Yeah, everything we've talked about. It's a great place to be if [01:03:28] Speaker A: you're not an American. [01:03:28] Speaker C: I know we have people who listen from elsewhere. The, the nationalism thing is not an American thing. We want the same for your nation. Love your nation, love where you're from, all of that. And so. But for us Americans, this is our time to party. So enjoy it and we'll talk to you guys on the next. Hey guys, Jack Wilke here. If you enjoy our work with podcasts like Think Deeper and Godly Young Men and our books, articles, seminars and want to support the work that we do, the best way to do so is to go to focuspress.org donate that's focuspress.org/donate. Thanks again. For listening.