How Christians Build Toward the Future

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome in to the Think Deeper podcast presented by Focus Press. Will Harrop here, joined by Joe and Jack Wilke. And we are live. We'd like to take every opportunity that we can to do this, which isn't very often. That's all get in the same room instead of doing it over Zoom. We actually, full disclosure, we had Zoom up a few nights ago. We recorded the Deep End and we were planning on trying to record an episode. Man, I think we just got to talking. It got to be about 11:15pm we were like, you know what, that's probably not gonna be a super high quality episode. So here we are a couple days later recording live in person. Jack is very close to Twins arrival, which I do want to ask about maybe here in a little bit of kind of how the preparation for that is going and where your mindset is with that. We do have a seminar coming up as well. I guess this probably will not come out until after the seminar, so maybe for those that are on Focus plus, maybe you might be able to catch it. We're in Cookeville, I think this weekend. But guys, welcome in. Any introductory thoughts as we kind of get this very free flowing episode started? [00:01:05] Speaker B: No. Always fun to get together. [00:01:06] Speaker C: I was gonna say it's a good time and yeah, it is free flowing. We had some ideas. That's part of what took us so long the other night is what about this, what about that? And okay, that's gonna take a little too much research. That one we're fully. Not fully prepared for. You know, we had some ideas of what we were gonna go into. It just kind of fell apart to some degree and we thought, man, let's just do a roundtable. This is what we did for episode 200. 200, yep. Where we just had a roundtable which [00:01:27] Speaker A: we're close to 250 now. [00:01:28] Speaker C: We're coming up on 250. We have to do this again for 250. But yeah, I think you were saying episode 237 somewhere around there. So in the next maybe 14, 13, 14 weeks or whatever. [00:01:38] Speaker B: By the end of the year. [00:01:39] Speaker C: By the end of the year. Yeah, we may have another one on the, on the books here. But anyway, fellas, welcome to my abode. My humble abode. Right. We were recording Jim podcasts and so Jack is kind enough to join us here and kind of prep for tomorrow in Cookeville. But we figured, hey, while we're here, let's just record this. Jack, we just did an episode on Spoiler alert for the gym listeners on when does a boy become a man? And I really am actually very curious to pick your brain on that. When does a boy. We talk so much about masculinity, where this is coming from. Quick background. I got a couple people I'm working with right now. I got a lot of people I'm working with, but a couple specifically that come to mind when I think of. They're great guys, but I wouldn't necessarily call them men, but they are definitely into their 20s. One is 26, 27, somewhere around there, but he hasn't really come into manhood. And I asked him this the other day when I was young. When did you become a man? And he was like, I don't really know. He couldn't give me a definite answer. We have a real problem in America. We talk so much on this podcast of extended adolescence, but that does present a conundrum. You're about to have three boys. I got three boys. You've got two. And more on the way maybe at some point. And so we all have men that we are having to raise up. When does a boy become a man? [00:02:50] Speaker A: Well, I want. Before you go, Jack, I want to also, we can now bring in the element of. What about a girl? When does a girl become a woman? Obviously, we didn't really cover that in our in our Gym podcast because Golia Men podcast. What about, you know, is it. Oh, well, it's marriage. Okay. You know, y' all have a sis. Older sister who's not married. Is she not a one? Obviously she is. So, like, there's kind of the. The two sides there. So. Yeah. Jack, we obviously just did a whole episode on When a boy becomes a Man. But curious, kind of your thoughts on the one thing I'll say before you go is I think the college experience has really clouded this quite a bit, is it's not just that guys go to college, it's that they go to College from 18 to 22 and are, for the most part, just goof around the whole time and so not doing manly things. So that kind of, again, kind of clouds the issue a little bit. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah. It's so much about responsibility. Right. And taking the responsibility that your parents have toward you, especially your mom, like taking care of you, and now you're taking care of yourself and you can take care of other people. And you think of first Timothy five, where he talks about, if a man doesn't care for his own, he's worse than unbeliever. Well, again, you don't have to be married and have your own to care from. But can you. Are you ready for that kind of role? And so yeah. And as you're saying, there are guys that are married that have not entered into that kind of responsibility. There are the. You mentioned the extended adolescence. We did a think faster probably in the first six months of the podcast back in 2022 about the rise of the kid alt and it was a study that had come out about the toy industry is now catered to adults like it does a huge chunk of its business. [00:04:21] Speaker A: I think that was right around the time McDonald's was advertising. [00:04:24] Speaker B: They've got Happy Meals for adults, 90s Happy Meals for the millennial kids and all that. And that is a thing you see guys do. And it can extend to sports. We're sports fans. But like that can become a thing that guys just pour all of their money into that or you know, acquiring their childhood toys or video games and things like that. That's an extreme version of it. But it's something that's out there. That's the people talk about. And the other thing that makes this difficult is the baton is not being passed. I mean look at Congress and like all of the people that attain major office are in their 70s and 80s like now. Some of our critics always like to say those young guys. A week after this episode comes out, I'm gonna be 37 with six kids. [00:05:08] Speaker C: Right. I appreciate hairline up here, man. [00:05:12] Speaker B: Like it is what it is. I'm not a young guy anymore, but I still get that pat on the head. Oh you. [00:05:17] Speaker C: One day you'll understand, you'll get all [00:05:19] Speaker B: this like I'm not anymore. But there is that. [00:05:22] Speaker A: It's just like the sports guy that call a 27 year old. He's just a kid. [00:05:26] Speaker C: Yeah, he's not great. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Not a kid. Yeah. And. And so there's the upper people, like the people who have not passed the baton to you. And then there's a point which you try and take the baton and there's that tug of war. But like a guy needs to come into that and say I'm gonna do this. [00:05:40] Speaker A: This ties into Joe's answer which I thought so both in the episode against boy it's gonna come out like Joe and I both answered kind of what we think at the end of the episode. And Joe, I'll let you share your. His answer was really interesting. It was a little bit mine heavily incorporated the responsibility. So my brother, my younger brother for instance, he's 18, but he's living at home still like so you know he's great, no shit. But I would not call him a man yet. He doesn't have any responsibilities that are, that mom and dad are still not taking care of. I moved out of the house at 19, got married. That was pretty much the turning point for me. Before that, I would maybe not have considered myself a man. But when you have responsibility not just for another person, but like when you move out and you're paying for your own, like you're on your own, like that's a level of responsibility there. So that was kind of my answer, Joe. I thought Joe's answer was interesting, but it ties into what Jack just brought up. [00:06:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the point I was making is I think when you are blessed by or recognized as a man in the eyes of other men. Yeah, I think that is such a big piece because we were talking rites of passage. So many rites of passage around the world, whether it be the Maasai war tribe or we were talking about those in the Amazon, right in Brazil. They got some crazy, crazy things that incorporates courage, it incorporates risk and things like that. It incorporates responsibility. But it's always done in the eyes of a man. And there's a great book, man Maker project that I got right over there that I drew on pretty heavily because he talks about the rites of passage and he talks about that there are those in villages where they will like kidnap the kid in the middle of the night away from the mom and have all the men of the tribe around this kid helping him come into manhood. And that's such an important element of are you recognized as one? And this is why we were talking marriage works or military or whatever works in terms for a lot of people's minds in terms of coming into manhood. Because at 19 you came into manhood, I'd say why? Because everybody recognized you as one. When you have a wife and especially when you have kids, you recognize as one. Now the difficulty is we know a lot of, a lot of older guys that I would say never really came out of it. The mom or the wife becomes the mom and they're kind of a kid among themselves. So it's not always that way. But notice how their parents treat them. Nine times out of 10, the parents treat them very much like they're still a six year old. The parents are still trying to call the shots. The parents are still treating them. They're. They're paying for bills, they're stepping in to help. And it's like you haven't taken on to your guys point the responsibility Element is just completely lost. [00:07:55] Speaker A: So real fast, before we get. I want to. I want Yalls thoughts on the girl becoming a woman thing. Jack, I'm curious. One thing I got to. At the end of the episode, and I know Joe did this at the start of his marriage. When you talk about young couple gets married, live with their parents, save money, you know, whatever. [00:08:12] Speaker B: A bigger thing all the time. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Bigger thing all the time. Stuff's more expensive. I think if. I don't know, obviously, man, My son is 4 years old. I don't know that I would give the okay for that for my son. And the reason is, is because I do think you're taking away a level of. Certainly a level of responsibility. Like, you need to be on your own. As weird as it sounds, if my son gets married and goes out and is able to provide for himself and his wife for a year, year and a half, two years, and then wants to move back, at that point, you've proven that you can do it. Maybe, but, like, I don't. So I don't know. But, like, I guess I'm kind of out on if my son. Hey, dad, my plan for getting married, I found this girl, we're getting married, and we're going to live with y' all for six months. Like, okay, well, at what point are you going to accept the response? So I'm kind of out on that. I'm curious your thoughts on that. Like, again, I know stuff's expensive. I know it's challenging, But I think if you're not able to provide for yourself that early on, then maybe marriage is not. [00:09:06] Speaker C: We were talking because that's me, you know, I lived with mom and dad, [00:09:09] Speaker A: and it worked out great. [00:09:10] Speaker C: And it worked out great. But I knew I would agree with that. [00:09:12] Speaker A: And I did. After is after like three or four years. [00:09:14] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, yeah, I. I kind of see parents. You can set your family up generationally in this terrible economy by almost simulating a better economy for your kids. I think, like, if you're gonna stay at home, you gotta pay some kind of rent. You need to be paying for your own shoes, like that, chipping into the bills. But where mom and dad are like, hey, well, you know, this is gonna [00:09:37] Speaker A: be [00:09:39] Speaker B: a lesser rent. You know, like, if you're gonna live in this area, cut you a deal. Yeah, it's like $2,000 a month. A lot of people can't do that. You know, getting started. Okay, we're gonna do that. But also a path to getting out of there, because you don't Want them to be there seven years, eight years, right? You hear what people where they're on, like, their second or third kid, like, all right, we gotta get out of mom and Dad's hair. [00:09:55] Speaker A: When you could speak to the challenges of the marriage early on, always having [00:09:58] Speaker C: people around, it is very detrimental to not have your own. Your own space. And, look, I get along great with my parents, and Alyssa's got a good relationship. Not in those. Not in that time period. You know, if I could go back and do it, yeah, I would, but I didn't have the opportunity. You know what I mean? [00:10:13] Speaker B: Those, like, generational thinking things, though, that people look at it, you know, what a loser thing to do. It's a different world. It was a loser thing to do 15 years ago and for the last 70 years, but historically, it really wasn't that strange. And now we're in a bad time, and it's not a. Hopefully we get out of this kind of system, but, like, you got to think outside the box of what is going to set your. Your family up. And, okay, well, they can't get married until they can afford, you know, this. That. Well, maybe they won't then. And that's not great. And so it's. [00:10:42] Speaker A: Well, to be fair, I'm certainly not an advocate of, hey, kick him out at 18. That's not what I mean. Like, it purely. When you are gonna be, as the man, the head of your household. I think there needs to be some kind of, like, you need to, you know, be tested as the head of the household. And that's why I get what you're about, like, the cheaper rent. And so it's still just maybe a bit of a bargain. What about the woman side? [00:11:01] Speaker C: Yeah, that's an interesting one. [00:11:02] Speaker A: When. When does a girl become a woman? I do think it's a little bit easier to identify for the guy because there are things like starting your career, you know, getting married, moving, you know, whatever it is. Any thoughts on it? So My sister is 20. Goodness, 21. Just turned 21. Still lives at home, you know, has her own job and stuff like that. I would consider her a woman, but, you know, at what point was that? Is that just an age thing? She hasn't moved out, but obviously different from the guys. So y'. All. Y' all have, you know, kind of two. Two sisters. That kind of different past there. [00:11:34] Speaker B: So the responsibility thing, it is much different. And that's back to the biblical text. He's the one that leaves father and mother to go find the wife. [00:11:43] Speaker C: Right? [00:11:43] Speaker B: And so, and then some folks did not like what we said on the Proverbs 31, man and woman episodes, that a lot of times the woman is defined by the man. Well, biblically, she is. She is the glory of man. She was created for man and not the other way around. And you got First Corinthians 7 talking about the father giving his daughter away in marriage. I think we kind of give lip service to at weddings, but we don't actually believe anymore. But it's a very real thing of she's still in connection to her father and then for her husband. And if she doesn't get married, there's still a connection to her father. Obviously, sometimes the father passes away and the woman's not married. So there's. It's not a perfect dynamic, but that is part of it. And so it changes what we're talking about when it talk when we're talking about of like coming of age and stepping into responsibility. But there's still a level of, is she, you know, taking care of what is hers to take care of? Is she stepping up? Is she, you know, fulfilling whatever role it is that she is in right now? And for girls, the teenage selfishness takes on a very different thing. And coming out of that, not that young boys aren't selfish. Theirs takes a different level too. Theirs can go into the adolescence kind of thing. [00:12:55] Speaker A: Sure. [00:12:55] Speaker B: And just stay there. The girls, it can be vanity, it can be chasing guys. It can be whatever it may be. And having kind of that groundedness going into adulthood, I think is a big part of it. What do you guys think? [00:13:07] Speaker C: I don't know, man. [00:13:08] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:13:09] Speaker C: Seriously, while you're talking, you gave me some time to process and think. [00:13:13] Speaker B: That's why I ramble a bit. [00:13:15] Speaker A: Appreciate that. [00:13:19] Speaker C: It's still loading. You should keep going. I don't know. Because to your point, the natural markers. We got this in the episode, like, of a man taking excellent action and courage and protection and purity and the things that kind of make you a man and masculinity and manhood and things like that are very defined. What would you define as womanhood? That's manhood. What would you define as womanhood? I think that has to be stated to say, what is the state that you're coming into? The man. It's the responsibility. It's the, you know, it's protecting something. It's having a mission that's bigger than yourself, and that is, you know, having people alongside the mission to some degree. So even if that's not Marriage, it's. It's getting busy working in the church or whatever it may be that to me, like masculinity is easy to define for femininity, for womanhood. Yes. We're three young guys. Young guys, you know, talking about this. But I don't. I would challenge any 50 year old woman. Like what does it tangibly mean to be a woman? Well, Titus 2 talks about loving your husband. [00:14:21] Speaker A: The domain of the woman. [00:14:22] Speaker C: Right. So what do you do if you are a 21 year old like your sister still at home. It's not her domain, it's not her abode to take care of. I think you'd have to be kind of coming in the vein of those things of like, you are starting to take responsibility. Where the line though is from, you're a girl, you're starting to take responsibility, boom, you're a woman. To me that's great. I don't know. [00:14:42] Speaker A: I agree that it's great. I think the key would be like just to use my sister example, is she ready to make the domain to rule her home kind of thing. And obviously like, well, there's an element of just like with kids, we never be fully ready for kids. Like before you ever do it, it's tough to know if you're ever ready. But like if, if there's a 19, 20 year old girl that's kind of looking at potentially running her home in marriage or whatever. And when I say running her home, like the Proverbs 31 woman style, like you know, making sure the home is managed well and she's just clueless, you know, can, can cook toast and that's about it. Doesn't do laundry, you know, like stuff like that. She's probably not ready like versus, you know, somebody like my sister who I would imagine is, is fairly confident. Like yeah, it's untested waters, but she, she could and she's prepared to. And that's obviously the role of the parents is key in making sure your daughter is prepared to do that. Problem with that is it is very gray. There's a lot of kind of subjectivity to that as opposed to oh, boom, you know, you're ready now. [00:15:37] Speaker B: And both of them. It's a prove yourself kind of thing. But it's prove yourself for what? And for a man, it's prove yourself that you can stand on your own two feet, you can provide for others, you can protect others, whatever it may be, that you can go out into the world and not be chewed up. And I've got. We didn't have the rites of passage, but there were a couple things that I had, trips I was on by myself that ended up in kind of dicey situations a little bit. And you come through them and it's very funny. Shortly after those, like, major life things happen, like I got married a year after one of them. Like shortly after I, you know, got together with my wife. It was things like that where it just kind of gives a boost of confidence myself. Okay, I can handle stuff, you know. And now for a woman, I would not say, hey, go out to the inner city by yourself after dark at night. Like, I'm not putting her through that or my daughter's through that. And. And so what does prove yourself look like for them? And I think it is kind of outgrowing some of that girlish vanity that comes in and things like that. And that's why the girl boss thing is so off putting is that she's kind of trying to do the man, go out there and fight for her place kind of things like, right, this doesn't. Everybody can see how, how strange it is. [00:16:46] Speaker C: It just feels off putting. You see that in the WNBA and such. It's just off putting. I'm sorry, it's just, it's off putting to see the woman attempt to do the man's role type of thing. The man thing, which is a different discussion. [00:16:56] Speaker A: So we fire that debate up right now. [00:16:58] Speaker C: We can definitely get into that. Well, there's a couple points I was thinking is so to the responsibility point. Alyssa was taking all her a lot of responsibility. 13, 14, 15 years old. She's older, taking care of younger siblings. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:10] Speaker C: She's oldest of seven. She's doing a lot of cooking, a lot of the cleaning, a lot of schooling to the point that in my opinion, I think it kind of is actually detrimental to her own career as not career, but you know, their own development and yeah schooling and things like that. But she was doing all of the woman things, learning how to bake and cook and clean and all the things we talk about from the Proverbs 31 woman. And she's really kind of. Would I consider her a woman in those areas at 15? Not necessarily. Because when we got married there was a huge regression. It's almost like we talk about parentification, you know, where she just became the parent at 13. You weren't ready to become a parent. And so I was kind of dealing with early on in marriage. And this doesn't denigrate my wife. She's amazing. But early on was rough because it's like she lived out the selfishness you're talking about early on in the marriage [00:17:55] Speaker A: instead of from 13 to 17. [00:17:57] Speaker C: Correct. She didn't have an opportunity to do that then, which is testing the boundaries. That's just a natural part of life. Well, that came with me. That didn't come with her parents because they relied on her so heavily. So I look at that and go, all the outer trappings would be, she's a woman. You know, she knows how to do these things. Was she internally? No. And that's the real difficulty. My question would be, does the second thing I was thinking, does the concept of being recognized, man to man, does that translate to women, woman to woman? Like the moment that your mom and other women in your church, in your life, your grandma, your aunts, whatever it may be, recognize you as a woman. Is there any part in that? I've never heard that before. I'm thinking out loud here. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Sure. [00:18:36] Speaker C: I don't even know how the outlets would be. Right. I don't even know how I feel about that or what the outlet would be. [00:18:41] Speaker B: I don't think so. Again, it's the man going out and carving his place out in the world. The Adam and Eve roles are he goes out and she doesn't do that. And so, like, that, that can happen. I don't think that's a bad thing, you know, that the other women at church are kind of, you know, relying on her more or seeing her as that or whatever. But I think it's the relational nature, the directions that they are pointed. It doesn't really lend itself toward. It's very asymmetrical, the way this works. And I don't know, we're kind of in the weeds on this discussion. And it follows some of the Proverbs 31 stuff we talked about, but this is for young people. I mean, this is for Christian teenagers. And I like speaking to them because they're the ones who get the stuff about gender roles we're talking about. They're not the ones. I mean, there's some of them, but they're not the ones blasting us for, like, you guys must abuse your wives kind of thing. No, you see those stats about, like, Gen Z is way more likely to say that wives should obey their husbands than boomers. Yeah, well, it's in the Bible. And so, like, so speaking to them, they are the ones we want to help shepherd into these rites of passage, these role, like, all right, we're going to pass this off to you because there's also that frustration I mentioned earlier it wasn't passed to us. It still has not been passed to us. And so that's why all of this is important. And I think it's a very interesting discussion. Not to get us off of it. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Sure. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Just kind of inserting this in here. Like, why are they talking about this? Because young people are. They're the ones that we have a chance with here. Yeah. Hey, guys, Jack Wilkie here. If you enjoy our work with podcasts, like Think Deeper and Godly Young Men and our books, articles, seminars, and want to support the work that we do, the best way to do so is to go to focuspress.org donate that's focuspress.org donate thanks again for listening. [00:20:29] Speaker A: That is an interesting element as we kind of, as I think about churches. [00:20:33] Speaker B: And [00:20:35] Speaker A: there was a time as I was growing up, just because I had always seen it the opposite. If there was like a 45 year old elder, I was kind of shocked. Oh, wow, that number is really young. I think that's interesting. The kids element comes into it. There are some people that think, obviously all the kids need to be baptized. There are some people that think you need to. Your kids need to be grown out of the house. So you can kind of be proven in that way. Spinning. It's in a different discussion. But I do think we've. As you think about elderships, man, if they're all 75 and older, is that a great thing? Does that kind of limit your, I don't know, ability to shepherd the flock? Super. Well, you know, that's one generation, that's. And there's no variety. There's versus somebody who's, you know, 45, 47 years old that we might look at and go, that's a pretty young elder. As I'm thinking about just. Jack, would you bring about passing the baton and all that? Like, does this come into church leadership at all? I mean, you see a lot of young preachers, obviously, you know, late 20s, early 30s, that's usually not. But obviously elders. Some of that comes with the qualifications part of it. Like how young is too young to be an elder? Maybe I guess the best way to ask that. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Well, and I wouldn't be surprised to kind of tack on what you're saying, that you start seeing younger elders because you've got that wave, that generational wave is gonna shift, you know, not that like it's just a reality of we are gonna start losing people. We are losing people. There are churches without elders. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:53] Speaker B: And that doesn't mean you lower the qualifications to get, you know, a 37 year old in there. I'm not anywhere close. It's, it's. You still have to meet the qualifications. But, but that goes to this other thing of like we've looked at. Oh man, 45, he's young. A guy who's 45, has had a career for 20, 25 years, probably been [00:22:10] Speaker A: married for close to that long. [00:22:11] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like, this is a guy with experience in life. Right. And well, here's the other thing. You look back at those stats that were going around around the 4th of July, 250, how young, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, all that, like they created the country in their 20s. Right? [00:22:27] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:27] Speaker B: And you think about. [00:22:29] Speaker C: A lot of people think the apostles were. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, generationally, the, the CEOs and guys like that, they got, you know, these major positions at 35 and they won't give them up. Now they're 80 to the guy that's 50 because he's too young. Like. Well, hold on a second. [00:22:43] Speaker C: Right? [00:22:43] Speaker B: Like this is the, this is out of line. And I think it will swing back to a much more natural progression of passing things on and you're gonna see younger leadership. I think that's something that's. [00:22:55] Speaker C: I think, I think the CEO discussion is really important because the reason they won't pass it down. We have a workaholism problem in America. And I realize I work a lot, maybe rich coming from me, but that concept of like I'm gonna work until I'm dead type of thing, because we find all our worth and our value. It's really tough to pass on to the night. We don't think generationally of like me and that 50 year old. He'd make a great leader. I'm ready to retire. Let's just. I'm not saying that this is across the board. No boomer ever retires. But you look at Con, how many you got? Mitch McConnell, who's basically dying. I mean, it feels like might be. He might seriously. I mean, who actually knows? And, and yet they weren't like they're [00:23:33] Speaker A: taking pictures of him with like the newspaper, like he's still alive. Everything like this. [00:23:37] Speaker C: Superhero movies, man. Yeah, exactly. Like, because AI couldn't possibly create that. Right. But either way, like, I don't know, it's just to me, like in business, the workaholism comes in. I don't know exactly the reason in the church why they don't necessarily want to like why people get squirrely about the. Of the 45, 50 year old elder other than this concept of too young. But the interesting thing is we are trying to extend youth. Everybody wants to look younger. What's his name? Brian Johnson's Gonna Live to 150. So we have this concept of forever youthful and yet that works against us. We never actually hit the gray headed. You're wise. And so we have this problem on both ends of it is we want to be forever young, but we want to keep people forever young in our minds that we never let them step up. And so it's like what happens when Brian Johnson's 80 and looks like he's 20? Is he old enough? Has he had enough life experience or is he still pretty young? [00:24:25] Speaker B: I've done that a while back. We need old people. Oh, I'm not old. Oh, I. You know all the euphemisms and stuff like that. Oh, I'm 72 years young at heart. We need 72 year olds. We need the wisdom of the gray headed. As the Bible talks about. Nobody wants gray hair so they just go and dye it. I mean, right. Accept your spot. And then there's this ecosystem that when you swallow up a 40 year thing and don't let other people move into the echelons of that, we have a big problem when you're gone. And I think, you know, that's not to turn this into a generational podcast. [00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [00:25:00] Speaker B: It's a passage leadership and things like that. And I'm not, I'm not here saying I'm 37. Everybody hand me the key. Like I said, I'm not qualified to be like that. On the other hand, we can work together here, you know, like we. That I would love it if there was a little more. Hey, you're my teammate. Not get out of the way young guys. Like. [00:25:19] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:20] Speaker C: So patronizing it. I mean, that's what drag me on switch. [00:25:24] Speaker A: Switching gears here. I was gonna. I'm very curious. I would get a little, I guess personal on this episode. Jack preparing for set of twins number two. What does that look like? How's the like as far as like, I guess may it might be mental preparation more than anything else, but like what is that looking like with you and Allison and kind of just. Yeah. Preparation for twins. Obviously neither Joe or I have any experience with twins. You're about to have double the experience. So. Yeah. Thoughts on that? [00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean like there is physical preparation, like getting a new bigger vehicle and like rearranging the house furniture and things like that so we can know where to put them and things like just there's a lot of logistics that go into it. But our. Our favorite hate watchers would love to know. I've been doing a lot of dishes because my wife's on bed rest. As I said on that episode, this is a season in life where that happens. And I'm not complaining. I'm not making her like, hey, get off a bed rest. [00:26:17] Speaker A: And so I'm gonna supervise the dishes. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. But we've been here before again with twins, and last time was harder because the oldest. Complete surprise. The oldest had not turned four when the twins were born. [00:26:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:30] Speaker B: So there's four kids under four years old. That was unbelievable. And we didn't live near family. We had help from church. [00:26:37] Speaker A: How do we keep things deeper going during that whole stretch? [00:26:39] Speaker B: Look back on that. The first year and a half of that, we moved twice. We moved out here and then to the house we bought. We had started Think deeper. We started who Let the Dog Mount? I wrote three books. All that. And I look at that go, how did I do that? And I. There's another part of it where it's like, I did that because of the difficulty. Yeah. When life is easier, you go, oh, man, I've working hard trying to get one thing done. But, like, when you have to be on top of your game, you have to be up in the morning. [00:27:04] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:27:05] Speaker A: You have to lose here. Yeah. [00:27:07] Speaker B: Like, Alice and I, you just get into this system, this groove of working harder, and it's. [00:27:12] Speaker C: It's good for you. [00:27:12] Speaker B: Like, you grow from that. And I don't know, you never know what complications or whatever could arise. Lord willing, all go smoothly. But if it does, we kind of know what we're doing here because you build experience, you learn things, you do stuff, and you just get better because you have to. And I think that's good to have those kind of tests. Not that I. You know, like, twins twice in a row. [00:27:33] Speaker C: Never expected that was gonna happen. [00:27:34] Speaker B: I'm here and, like, what do you. [00:27:36] Speaker A: I'll never forget when I saw that announcement on Facebook. Oh, dude. What? Or I think Rachel texted me, actually, because Allison had shared with the women. I think that's what it actually. [00:27:44] Speaker C: It's crazy. Did you tell me at the gym or something? [00:27:47] Speaker B: No, I sent it to the family strand. [00:27:49] Speaker C: That's what it was. [00:27:49] Speaker B: The picture of the ultrasound screen, there's two little bubbles on it, like. And I just texted guys. [00:27:55] Speaker C: That's right, everybody. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Is this AI? [00:27:58] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:27:59] Speaker B: You can't be serious. I think that's it. [00:28:03] Speaker C: What are the odds? I know the odds. Are greater to have them again. [00:28:05] Speaker B: But, like, it's still 1 in 12. For if you've had twins, the first, because the first time is one in however many hundred or whatever, and then after that, it's one. [00:28:13] Speaker C: You guys are lucky. Just look at you. [00:28:14] Speaker A: That's crazy. [00:28:16] Speaker C: Your odds, it's a huge blessing. And I was thinking about from the spiritual perspective. We talked so much about spiritual leadership. Do you find that changes you? Do you get more stressed as a, you know, I got four, you got three, Lord willing, I'm assuming at some point, you know, you talked about having four, you got six. Now, spiritually, does that worry you? Freak you out? Does that cause you step up a little more? What does that look like in your mind, leading family of six spiritually? [00:28:45] Speaker B: The intentionality of spending time, you know, especially as the other ones get older and just making sure, hey, I'm talking to them. I'm plugged into their life, what they care about. And they can talk to me or to Allison, and not just me and not just Allison, you know, they get mom and dad. And that, you know, is a big part of it. And so, yeah, you only have so much time to give around. So again, you have to be disciplined. You have to be on top of those kinds of things. But. And we'll see how it goes. But it's been done. This is not, you know, we're not the only people now, back to back, twins, six kids, eight and under. You know, like, that's. That. That's a lot. But, you know, it is what it is. And you just look at it. I think people think we just, like, pick and choose on. Let's talk about this. Let's talk about that male headship and, you know, kids and all these things. This is a comprehensive worldview in which all the puzzle pieces fit together. We want kids because God calls them a blessing. But also in that same passage, he calls them arrows. That I think about it as, like, this is three more sons that, Lord willing, will be elders someday. Three daughters that will be maybe elders wives or preachers wives or in any sense, you know, women who are serving the church and making families of their own and multiplying. And you think about it as a voter base someday and as a just a opportunity to serve people and all of the things that can come from this. And we've talked about, like, between all the kids that we have, we are 20 years away from walking into the Dixon county meetings and whatever. Like, all right, we're in charge because I had six, he had four. And you guys had one or two. I mean, like, that's what he's talking about in Psalm 127. But that takes putting in time for family devos and discipline and staying close and connected with your wife and this plan and all that. [00:30:27] Speaker A: Now, so much of this, too, is what are you preparing your kids for? What purpose? You think about the dad, that his mission is to have his son get a scholarship, an athletic scholarship, maybe make the pros. You think about for the girl, the purposes that she's going to be the hottest girl in high school, prom queen. All those things, you're preparing them with the purpose of highest gpa, getting to the best school. You're preparing them for the purpose. I think that's what you're speaking of, Jack, is what we just desperately want every Christian family to prepare their kids for is man. Multigenerational faithfulness, faithful homes where men fulfill their roles, women fulfill their roles, children fulfill their roles, faithful disciples. That's what we're preparing them for. Whether or not they, you know, are good at sports. [00:31:16] Speaker C: Sure. [00:31:17] Speaker A: It's an added bonus. That's not. That's not the purpose. Whether or not they are super popular, certainly not the purpose. Whether or not they have a big. So, like, I just think about growing up, the kids in my youth group. And I'm not trying to pretend like I knew exactly what the parents, you know, I'm not trying to project onto the parents something that I'm coming to now. But it's like, was that really the purpose? Was that really what you're preparing them for, to be faithful Christian disciple and raise a faithful family? Or was it, man, let's get them into this school. Let's make sure that they're, you know, so. [00:31:47] Speaker C: And just hope they stay faithful along the way. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Right? [00:31:48] Speaker A: Correct. Yeah. You know, lives revolve again, lives revolving around sports for the guys, lives revolving around the school dance for the girls. Like, I know that's stereotypical, but, man, that's what's. It seems like that's what so many, even Christian families are preparing their kids for. Those things rather than the things Jack's talking about. [00:32:04] Speaker C: Right. I want to go back to something you said earlier. I find that so fascinating that you got more work done when it's difficult. I want to pick your brain on that a little more. And we'll get your thoughts maybe on this as well. Like, is this something we as. What's the threshold on that? I think we as Christian families, there's a lot of people that love the ease they only want the one kid. The two kids, maybe no kids at all. For the east portion, obviously, we're going more. I stopped at 4. You talked about that from the, you know, raising them up. I felt the limitation. Like, man, I have a tough time feeling. I have tough time finding time for my kids right now. You know, with four, I just was thinking about, you know, five, six, seven, whatever it may be like. So I decided at four. That's what I felt I could manage. I. You know, there's been some people that [00:32:47] Speaker A: make that argument with two or one. [00:32:48] Speaker C: Correct. Exactly. And I guess that's my point is, like, maybe I'm not saying I stopped too short, but on the other hand, Alyssa and I've had some conversations on that of, you know, should we rethink this type of thing? But the difficulty point, I think, is really interesting to dig into. Like, sometimes we are more locked in and we're getting more done. What's the threshold on that? Between. I just want a life of ease. I don't think that's right. And I have stretched myself so thin, I'm over capacity. Yeah, over capacity. Yeah, exactly. I'm getting burnt out. How do you. How would you help maybe the average Christian find difficulty so that they can kind of get kicked into high gear to some degree where we're not just seeking comfort all the time while not going off the rails on the other end? Does that question make sense? [00:33:28] Speaker B: It does. Well, it's like weightlifting, right? If you go in, you're like, all right, I'm gonna pull this 600 pound deadlift. You're gonna hurt yourself. [00:33:33] Speaker C: Right, right, right. [00:33:34] Speaker B: You probably won't move the bar, but if you try to, you're gonna hurt yourself. Don't do that. On the other hand, if you go in, you're like, well, 100. I went and did a hundred. I can still do 100. I'll do 100 tomorrow. [00:33:43] Speaker C: What? [00:33:43] Speaker B: You know, like, you don't know what you're capable of. Like, that is the kind of progressive overload. And that's why, you know, thankfully, God's giving us two kids at a time and not eight at a time. You know, like some people, I can end up with lots of kids or whatever, but, you know, it's. Yeah, it is kind of just taking on more. And you just realize, okay, I can do more than I thought I could. And again, with weightlifting, with running, whatever, you know, people, hobbies, people have, you realize, oh, actually, if I apply myself, if there's a little bit of pressure for me to Step up. I can do more than mentally. I thought I could the first time, and, sure, stretching myself. But on the other hand, I do see people where it's kind of like, yeah, we're gonna. You know, we. We just got married. We haven't had any kids yet. You know, we still live in mom and Dad's house or an apartment, wherever. We're gonna have 10 kids. Like, hang on. Like, I'm gonna lift 600 pounds on my first date. Lift what you got right now, and God will grow you into it, and we'll see. Maybe you do have 10 down the road, and that's great. Maybe not, you know, maybe that's something that doesn't happen. That's okay. But, yeah, I do think you can overdo it and not be wary, not be in paying attention to the risks. But on the other hand, like, not. Not ever pushing yourself and going, well, boy, that. That's a lot, you know, like, well, [00:34:59] Speaker C: because, well, I want to get you. But that's the other thought is like, is comfort ever okay? You know, is rhythm, peace? Is that ever okay? Because there are some that just stay stagnant and comfort becomes a killer. And they, you know, it's the. I'm sorry, but the old folks that watch Fox News until they die, like, man, there needs to be something that is pushing you. On the other hand, there are those that are like, let's go. Let's go. I never find peace. [00:35:22] Speaker A: I think this might be. This might be an oversight. And I'm gonna speak for Jack, Joe, for you and I sometimes, too. I'll see those tweets that are like, man, are you really telling me that, you know, the nine to five when you're, you know, home for dinner every night and just do something fun on the weekend? Like, man, is that. Are you telling me that's your peak existence? And it's like, that doesn't sound too bad, right? [00:35:42] Speaker C: Like. [00:35:42] Speaker A: So, like, is that, like, where it's. You know, you're home most nights, got kids, soccer game on the weekends, you know, you know, active in church. But it's a fairly. I'm not gonna say, but like, boring, peaceful, maybe. Like, is that a bad thing? I think the way you and I are structured, you know, at least some of our episodes have been structured as, like, man, strive for more, give more. Like, we can run ourselves into the ground with that sometimes. And so that. I don't know if that's kind of accurate adding to what you're saying, Joe much. But that's kind of where My mind went, is like, I do think there's an element where, when the husband, you know, when you as a guy are in a career spot where you can comfortably provide for your family, save for retirement, pay for your kids education, go on a vacation a couple times a year or whatever, and you can be home for dinner with your kids and spend time with them. [00:36:23] Speaker C: What a blessing. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Maybe you've peaked. Like maybe that at that point is when there is a level of, you know, allowing yourself to relax. There is a comfort there. I don't know that that's as bad as maybe we make it out. [00:36:34] Speaker C: But then there's the difficulty of like, okay, but does the guy, this sounds mean, I don't know, my mind goes to, does he ever accomplish anything? Because you see, the guys are just kind of fine with it and I honestly, I envy them. I envy the guy that doesn't. My mind's always going on the next thing, the next thing. And that sounds like I'm pumping my own tires. I'm not like, I actually wish my brain would just shut off and that I could just enjoy the moment and be present and actually find peace and comfort. I struggle with that a lot because it's always the next thing. To your point, you accomplished way more when the next thing was happening, when you were very busy. So there's a good part to that. But yeah. What are your thoughts? [00:37:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been thinking about this contentment versus complacency thing a lot. [00:37:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Of contentment is very good. But being complacent, you can say, well, I'm just being content. Well, maybe not. You're not. Maybe you're not pushing yourself hard enough. I do think for most, almost everybody, having a job where you can provide for your family, you're discipling them. You're an active part in your church. That's a successful life. And on the other hand, the five talent man needs to produce five talents. And I'm not, you know, saying I'm the five talent man or whatever, but like, yeah, there is a higher call for some people, but like you, that's where you push yourself and you pray that God would use you and things like that. But there was this spring, you know, our sons played in the soccer league together. And I texted Joe, or you know, we talked about it at some point, like Saturday morning, get together with the families out at the soccer field, you know, coaching our boys together. Sunday night we're going over for Bible study at mom and dad's house, that we're teaching like if you had sold me that at age, you know, 13 or whatever, like, man, we did sign me up. We did something right. [00:38:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Like, and. And so there's. Because the other thing is inside the house itself, something that I, I think about a lot. And again, with more kids and the difficulties we're talking about, there's the families that are very oriented toward academics, very oriented into sports, towards sports. There are families that are very biblically oriented that lose their kids because they drove them so hard. And it was a little bit over the top on that. I want a joy filled house. [00:38:32] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:32] Speaker B: I want a house where the kids look back like, man, it was great to grow up there. It was. We loved God, we loved each other. Mom and dad had a good time, we had fun. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:40] Speaker B: Yeah. It was a great place to grow up. Even if we didn't have all the trappings. We weren't billionaires, jet setting around the world or whatever. Like, an average day at mom and dad's house was good. And part of that is having expectations on them. Having expectations on myself, on Allison, on the kids, like, hey, we're. We're gonna have a clean house. We're gonna take time to do our chores, we're gonna work hard and then we're gonna have fun together. We're gonna play a game of Uno on Sunday afternoon. We're gonna watch a movie together, whatever it may be, and just have a good time and honor God. Like, we're gonna have time for the devo. And I think whatever it takes to get to there. If it's cutting things out or if it's doing more things, sometimes maybe you are too complacent and you're not really staying on top of the house and your work or whatever work to the point you can do that, that you can have the joy filled home. And as I said before, this whole like worldview thing, everything we said about what mom's supposed to do, mom doing the dishes, dad bringing home the bacon, leads toward this. Everything fits. [00:39:36] Speaker C: In pursuit of that. [00:39:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:37] Speaker C: Of the joy filled home, [00:39:42] Speaker B: Ruby gets promoted to serve the queen of the beehive. But then she lets it go to her head. Be humble. The latest book in the Ruby's Happy Hive series teaches children about the importance of humility and how we ought to treat others. With illustrations they will love and characters they will remember. All the books in the Ruby's Happy Hive series will help your children grow in godly character and teach them all about bees in the process. Look for bee humble B E E Humble by Heidi Fowler on Amazon today. And check out the other books in Ruby's Happy Hive series. R U B E E Happy Hive series from Cobb Publishing. [00:40:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I was, I was just thinking, like, what I think you have to ask yourself, what do I need to eliminate from my life to get to that point? [00:40:24] Speaker B: Some people need to add stuff, but some people, a lot of people, I [00:40:26] Speaker A: think the majority need to probably eliminate. And I. Media. You mentioned intentionality with your time. A lot of it, I think in this speaking of myself, is eliminating just like social media scrolling. Oh, yeah, it amazes, it amazes me how like you got three, three to five minutes, you know, waiting in the car, just at home, pull out your phone, scroll. When you add up all those three to five minute segments from the course of 4pm to 10pm you wasted an [00:40:48] Speaker B: hour and a half. [00:40:49] Speaker A: But it doesn't feel like that because it was separated. That's where that intentionality comes in, is like, hey, we got 30 minutes for dinner. We're gonna do this maybe. And it doesn't have to be a devo. I'm gonna, we're gonna, you know, me and the kids are gonna play together or something. Or I'm gonna sit and connect with my wife about the family. But like being intentional and eliminating those three to five minute distractions, maybe it is big stuff. Like you've just got too much on your plate. Too many sports events or too much, too much on the social calendar. Like, whatever it is, I think that would apply as well. But man, if you're wanting to get to that point, I do think asking yourself, what do I need to eliminate? [00:41:17] Speaker C: Is key. [00:41:17] Speaker B: There was a great tweet going around this morning about it's your dopamine being fried by all this stuff that makes life kind of boring. It makes life seem stressful, rushed. And there are the stresses and rushes and things like that. But he said, stare at a wall for 30 minutes. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw this tweet. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Go pick up a book. [00:41:34] Speaker A: The book will be that much better. It will. [00:41:36] Speaker B: But if you're scrolling an, oh, 10 second reel, 17 second reel, you know, like after one after another and then you pick up the. You can't concentrate. I'm trying to read the Iliad, you know, the Odyssey movie came out. I'm not gonna see the movie. But I'm like, all right, I need to know about this. It is so hard to read because if you're. [00:41:51] Speaker A: I read those in high school. Yeah. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Oh, if your attention lapses for five seconds, you're like, who's Talking. [00:41:55] Speaker C: Where are we? [00:41:56] Speaker B: What's going on? I don't have the attention span for it. And it's hard. And so for the family life, as you're saying, you got to get your brain to where just a stroll with the family is a great time. You know, the kids are going to pick up on that. [00:42:09] Speaker A: I remember the Odyssey being a lot more of a better read than the Iliad. [00:42:13] Speaker B: It's. The Iliad was. It is very. It was super. It's like the sixth time I've never read. [00:42:18] Speaker A: I remember kind of enjoying the Odyssey book, to be honest. Like, and I don't remember what translate, but I had to read it for high school. [00:42:23] Speaker C: They super long. [00:42:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:25] Speaker C: Yeah. 900 pages of them or something like that. [00:42:28] Speaker A: That is a big cultural event we haven't really touched on. [00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:31] Speaker A: Is the Odyssey movie. [00:42:33] Speaker C: You know, I'm. I will be boycotting, you know, And I'll tell you what. Solidified that for me. Sorry. I guess as we shift to. [00:42:40] Speaker B: Sorry, I didn't. [00:42:40] Speaker C: I didn't know. [00:42:40] Speaker A: You're good. [00:42:41] Speaker C: You're all good. No, because I was. I was thinking about that, actually, as Jack mentioned Odyssey, I thought. Me and I frustrated by that movie. I'd love to be able to go see that movie. I just won't. And the thing that solidified it, I already wasn't going to go see it last night. I'm seeing Elliot Page. She sounds like a robot, you know, because she's fried her vocal cords trying to sound like a dude. And it's like, you're just not a dude. Mech. And talking about how difficult it was on. On Chris Christopher Nolan set of Inception as a female and how uncomfortable she was, you know, and how this was just a completely different experience. And they've trotted her out as like, apparently she's got a fairly small role in the movie. You would not know that by the press briefings and everything that she's getting. Exactly. And so they're throwing it out there and she's getting to go out there and pretend she's a dude. That to me was like, yeah, you solidified. I will not support the movie. Because this entire thing was to set up something like that where. What is the talking point out of this? Elliot Page is, you know, is in his movie again. No, dog, I'm sorry. I'm boycotting that all day, every day. Same reason we boycott Disney. Anytime I got a trans princess coming up to my kid, it's like, get out of my face. In no way am I paying you money for you to put that garbage in my kid's face or my face. I don't act like it's normal and act like it's normal. Absolutely not. So, yeah, no, I'm pretty passionate about like I was looking. I texted Jack about it. I said, man, is this overblown? Like, are we. Am I wrong? Because my brother in law was in town, he wanted to come see it or go see it with me. [00:44:00] Speaker A: And I was like, so, I mean, this is interesting. I did go see it. Did you? [00:44:03] Speaker C: This gu. I did, yeah. [00:44:05] Speaker A: So finish your thought and then I'll go. [00:44:07] Speaker C: Well, he was like, you're gonna see it. And I said, I just want to. [00:44:10] Speaker A: I texted with the audience. [00:44:12] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I texted Jack, we do disagree on. [00:44:14] Speaker A: We do. [00:44:14] Speaker B: We do. [00:44:14] Speaker C: All right. And I texted Jack. I'm like, is this overblown? And he's like, no, I don't think it is. And I looked at Matt Walsh and Benny Johnson, a couple others, and I was like, okay. Because I had seen Ben Shapiro and a couple others were praising it and I thought, yeah, exactly. And I thought, well, well, that's kind of interesting. I thought this was kind of an anti all a little bit. There's definitely a divide. But the guys that I more favor were against it. And I was, I understood their points. [00:44:37] Speaker A: I'm really, I'm really frustrated with. With the Elliot Page kind of or Ellen Page or whatever her name is inclusion because it was a very small part of the film. Spoilers. She's killed in the first like three minutes of the movie. Has one. [00:44:52] Speaker B: It's phobic. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. One appearance. One appearance. Later on. I was really frustrated that that was the inclusion. Here's my question. And you know, I watched the Matt Walsh video actually, and Matt Walsh tears the movie to shreds. Like just absolutely obliterates it. The problem I have with that is that Matt Walsh kind of does that for a lot of stuff and is [00:45:11] Speaker B: in my opinion a bigger hater than. [00:45:12] Speaker A: He's a bit. He's a bit hyperbolic on stuff. [00:45:16] Speaker C: He's embraced the role. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, he basically, like, it's an attack on Western civilization and all these things. And to me, that was a bit of a bridge too far. This, I think the heart of this is the boycott discussion again, like, what causes us to boycott? Why don't we boycott Starbucks? Why don't we boycott. You know, like, we've talked about that before. My mom was big about boycotting Starbucks way back when. And then, you know, I've got a, you know, Our preacher, who, you know, 70 year old Christian, faithful Christian preacher. Love Starbucks, you know what I mean? So, like, there's a difference with, with certain people. So I'm curious what it was for y'. [00:45:48] Speaker B: All. [00:45:48] Speaker A: And I know you just kind of elaborated on it, the, the trans, like it's not a trans character in the movie. I think that would have made a difference for me, like if this person is. But like the person was trans, where I go with that, it's like, okay, well, that's their, that's their personal life. But that's also like Matt Damon's personal life. I don't support Anne Hathaway's, you know, and Hathaway's coming out saying she's a big abortion advocate. Like, I don't support that. [00:46:10] Speaker B: So would you have gone to see it though, if she was the abortion advocate in the movie? [00:46:15] Speaker A: Like, if that was the character. Well, that's what I'm getting at is like, if there was a train. [00:46:18] Speaker B: She's a man in the movie is what I'm saying. Yeah. So like she is basically, if, if Anne Hathaway got on and gave a pro abortion speech in the movie, to me is the same as them saying, hey, this is a. [00:46:27] Speaker A: You can't equalize that, equivocate that they're [00:46:29] Speaker B: carrying the illusion into the movie. And that makes sense. So there's the trans thing. I also the, the DEI thing, the Helen of Troy, because as has been pointed out by many people before me, they went out of their way to get all Polynesian people for the Moana thing and you know, like Black Panther. I ain't playing Black Panther. Like that's gonna happen. But this all shoot you. [00:46:53] Speaker C: I mean, that's okay. [00:46:54] Speaker B: It's one of those, as I've said so many times before, make it okay for everybody or make it okay for nobody but it. You can't just do this. Well, and so, yeah, it's the, the actual, like they're giving the game away. [00:47:07] Speaker C: 0 Real Greeks in the movie. But boy, we got, you know, somebody from Africa to play Helen of Troy. Are you nuts? Are you outside your mind? The other thing is, from everything I was reading on it is like he. So I read one thing that said he took from a particularly feminist reading. Somebody did kind of a feminist reading. [00:47:23] Speaker B: Translator lady. [00:47:24] Speaker A: I've seen her. Yeah. [00:47:27] Speaker C: Yeah, well, yeah, okay, that's it. [00:47:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:33] Speaker C: So, yes, he took from that. And then my understanding is he basically whitewashed the end of the Odyssey because it was just too mean to the females that there's a lot of female slaves that get, you know, killed and is misogynistic. And so he decided to change the book because of the misogyny in it. Like, the thing just reeks of, again, the dei, the trans. The misogyny, the. All of this. It's like he tried to make. And Matt Walsh said as well, he tried to make that movie in a 21st century, through a 21st century lens, rather than what he does best is trying to help you. Like in Dunkirk, that wasn't through a 21st century. I mean, I was in it. I was this 1940s. Like, I didn't feel that I was still in this world. [00:48:10] Speaker A: Why do you think he did that? Because he hasn't done that. [00:48:12] Speaker C: I think he's bowed to the pressure. I think this is one of the biggest films ever created, you know, from a spectacle. The money he spent, the imax, you know, the money it's making. It's just gonna be one of the biggest films ever. And I think it was really easy to bow to the pressure. The Helen Detroit thing, that one was the first. Like, I really don't support this. Boy, that settles us off big time. And again, it's not. It has nothing to do with racism. It has everything to do with the. The double standard that you spoke to of. Like, that's not right. And so am I condemning people? [00:48:44] Speaker A: You. [00:48:44] Speaker C: And there's a ton of other people that have gone, seen a ton of their friends and people like that. It's one of the biggest movies of the decade, probably. I don't know. I have a problem with Christopher Nolan specifically bowing to that pressure because Oppenheimer had a ton of nudity in it. That was a real. You know, I. I didn't see it. I still haven't seen Oppenheimer, but for that reason. But, yeah, that's a huge change for him. And then this. And it's like, man, why did you have to take the last good director in Hollywood and do this to him? [00:49:09] Speaker B: It's just so. Something that's interesting to me is for a long time, get woke, go broke has been pretty reliable that when they. They really go over the top. So many Disney things. [00:49:19] Speaker A: No, White was the big example. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Just some of the Marvel, you know, the Brie Larson stuff. [00:49:24] Speaker C: Yeah, that's super. What was it Supergirl recently or what? Oh, Tank. Rough, hilarious. [00:49:29] Speaker B: This one. Very Woke, you know, hits all the. The talking points. Did not. Tank did not go broke. And so why is that? Is it just a quality thing? Is it. [00:49:40] Speaker C: It's Christopher Nolan, with every big star on the planet, like, the first 30 billings of that. [00:49:46] Speaker A: I mean, he's produced multiple. Just Masterpiece films. The producer, Snow White. I don't know the person's name. You know what I mean? There was no equity built. [00:49:54] Speaker B: It gives the sense that, like, that's gonna be in there, but then also his artistic ability is going to be a lot bigger than that. Whereas Supergirl, like, the whole movie is nothing feminist. Yeah. And that's. So you don't want to go to a home. [00:50:07] Speaker A: So it's more subtle. It's more subtle than. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Yeah, sometimes it's more dangerous. But I don't know. You know, haven't read the book. I don't know enough about it. I haven't seen. [00:50:14] Speaker A: You should read it. [00:50:15] Speaker B: I'm. It's. It's. I'm working on it. [00:50:17] Speaker A: Don't let. Don't let the Iliad deter you. The Odyssey is better. [00:50:20] Speaker C: You have to read the Iliad before the Odyssey. [00:50:21] Speaker B: You don't have to. [00:50:22] Speaker C: Okay. [00:50:23] Speaker B: But, yeah, no, it is interesting, though, socially. Like, it did really well. [00:50:29] Speaker A: It's still doing very well. [00:50:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:30] Speaker C: I'm curious in the comments where everybody would kind of stand on that as to, like, are we good with it? Because we revisit the boycott discussion again. Alyssa, love to go back to Disneyland. [00:50:40] Speaker A: Disney has scaled back a lot of [00:50:42] Speaker C: their stuff, and Disney has. And so that's kind of. Her point is, like, they take in a serious step back, and I look at it like, well, did they fire 30% of their writers? [00:50:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:50:49] Speaker C: You know, who were all LGBTQ advocates. 30% of it. Over 30%. Have they fired those people? I haven't seen mass firings at Disney. They've laid off a few for sure. I don't know. Like, at what point do you resist? [00:51:00] Speaker A: Say, well, at what point have they done enough to. [00:51:02] Speaker B: Or. [00:51:03] Speaker C: Okay, let's say Odyssey comes to. Is not gonna be the same when it's not on a giant IMAX screen. But let's say it comes to home, you know, comes. Comes your house. Do you watch it then? I want to. [00:51:11] Speaker A: Not paying money. [00:51:12] Speaker C: You're not paying money for it? Yeah. Streams or you pay, like, five bucks. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Movie rental stores. We get ours from the library for free these days. [00:51:18] Speaker C: Well, there you go. [00:51:19] Speaker B: Like, yeah. [00:51:19] Speaker C: Okay, so it's free. [00:51:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Can you get it for free and watch it? I don't know. I. [00:51:23] Speaker C: That. [00:51:23] Speaker A: That, to me, would make it all a money thing. And, like, you're not really standing on principle anymore. It's just money. [00:51:28] Speaker B: Like, I don't well, it's not giving them money. [00:51:30] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't want to give them money. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I'm gonna have newborn twins. I don't have three hours. [00:51:37] Speaker A: He's not watching three hour movie anytime soon. [00:51:40] Speaker C: I don't know where I fall on that as to whether would I like to see it. Well, yeah, I mean it's a historic movie. It is. Christopher and I just couldn't get around those things. I have a tough time wanting to support that. I feel the same about Disney and the fact that again, no Disney plus, no Disney movie. Like my kids know nothing at Disney. And that's what I told listed. She's like, I'd love to take the kids to Disney World at some point. [00:51:56] Speaker A: The same forum. [00:51:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Like. And I was like, they would. They know Bluey, right? That's all they would know. They don't. [00:52:02] Speaker B: My kids aren't Bluey Disney. [00:52:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:04] Speaker B: They bought it. [00:52:05] Speaker C: It wasn't initially. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Right. Oh, they own the whole thing now. [00:52:08] Speaker C: I don't know if they own the whole thing, but it definitely American rights. Like the way we know it is through Disney plus when we had it. And then, you know, my. My in laws. I think mom and dad still actually haven't. So either way, I don't think it'd be that much a loss because they don't understand any of those Toy Story they watched on a streaming service when we were on vacation and they got it. [00:52:27] Speaker A: So no money went there. [00:52:29] Speaker C: But that's the point exactly. Like, should I still be boycotting even when it's free Starbucks coffee? [00:52:36] Speaker B: Would you drink it? [00:52:37] Speaker A: Or a Starbucks gift. Yeah. That you don't have. [00:52:40] Speaker C: Which I don't boycott Starbucks, you know. But then again, why. So it almost feels like just a personal conviction thing. That's why you can't condemn anybody for it. Is you going to the Odyssey? [00:52:49] Speaker B: They were so bad. [00:52:51] Speaker C: But they were really bad. [00:52:52] Speaker B: So. And there were a couple others, but those two in particular. [00:52:54] Speaker C: In your face, big time. [00:52:55] Speaker B: Well, and I guess the Starbucks. [00:52:56] Speaker A: Starbucks at the time was pretty bad. [00:52:58] Speaker B: He said like, don't shop at my company if you're against abortion or whatever. [00:53:02] Speaker C: Like. All right, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that. But I don't heard they ever go to Starbucks. I don't. I don't avoid it. But yeah. [00:53:08] Speaker B: And this is one of those, well, Kingdom's not of this world guys, so it doesn't matter. Like, no, I really don't like giving money to people who hate me. And I think some of that's what some of the Odyssey, DEI stuff, the trans thing, like that represents a little bit of that of like, no, I'm shoving my worldview down your throat. Which I mean most movies are in some way that. [00:53:27] Speaker C: Right. [00:53:27] Speaker B: They've gotten so bad of like it's operating within their world. And that's why I have hardly seen any movies made in like the last 10 years. [00:53:35] Speaker A: I think that was the first time I've been to a theater in three years. [00:53:37] Speaker C: Yeah, we went to Mario. [00:53:38] Speaker B: No reason to go, kids, but that's about it. [00:53:42] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know. And the Disney thing, the boycotts again, I'm curious for, for everybody listening, especially on the deep end. I'd love to get your comments on. On that and to get your comments on masculine or like manhood. Womanhood. [00:53:55] Speaker B: I think that's as fascinating like a think fast here at the end. [00:53:58] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. A little bit more of a think fast, but. But I am curious to get everybody thoughts. We're at the 54 minute mark, so I suppose there's a little bit more time. But yeah, that's something to revisit and something to I think pray about and think about and you know, figure out going forward. Like what would have to change. That's the difficulty in boycotting is what would have to change. Is there ever a point where I would go back Home Depot, there was Ford, there was Walmart. There was like they tried these things over a weekend. Everybody pulled away from it. It worked. And it's like, oh, buddy, you know, they did it. Remember Walmart did that over Memorial Day weekend several years back and they lost [00:54:32] Speaker A: so much money or gay marriage. [00:54:34] Speaker C: There's something like a gay marriage thing and they lost so much money that they're basically like, okay, we won't touch that one. And they kind of got away from all of that because, yeah, money talks, you know, and so when Christians do it, there is a reason for it. But I think of the. And maybe it's just me trying to figure out Disney, no skin off my nose. Disney's fun. I know you're not big Disneyland, Disney World guy at all. Disney is fun. On the other hand, is there ever a time where I'd revisit that? I mean, I don't, I don't know what that would take. Yeah, I don't know. That looked like maybe, but. [00:55:01] Speaker B: And then you can get into like the sports teams. We took the family to a Nashville Sounds game. Thank. We just picked, you know, it was a Tuesday night game or whatever. Thankfully it was two Days away from pride night. Like. Yeah, thanks, guys, for like. [00:55:16] Speaker C: Right. [00:55:17] Speaker B: My 4 year old asked me about this. [00:55:19] Speaker A: That's. [00:55:19] Speaker B: So I'm not going back. You know, on the other hand, every team in town has it, so. [00:55:23] Speaker A: Right. [00:55:24] Speaker C: Because the Avalanche are big on, you know, Colorado Avalanche are big on pride. [00:55:29] Speaker A: You know, five years ago would boycott in the NFL and you know, like. But again, similar to the. The Odyssey. Like, Odyssey, like, NFL is fine. [00:55:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Disney. I think it did affect, you know, to some degree. But. Yeah. So, I mean, the boycott discussion is always, always challenging. But. [00:55:46] Speaker B: And you. It's not necessarily to cripple them or make them change their ways. If that happens, it's great. It's personal. Yeah. I don't like giving money to people who hate me or who want to indoctrinate my kids or whatever it may be, so. [00:55:58] Speaker C: All right. Well, fellas, any other thoughts? [00:56:01] Speaker A: I don't think so. I think I had on mind Joe not to spin us into this with Jack preparing for twins with. With you. You're kind of the first one of us. Excuse me? The first one of us three, where you all are officially, like, moving to the next phase of life with kids. I think when you hit a stage with your kids where all of them can communicate and you don't necessarily have to. [00:56:23] Speaker C: Like, it's relative. [00:56:25] Speaker A: You're getting there. Is what I said, where they can communicate and you don't have to keep an eye on them every second of the day. [00:56:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:31] Speaker A: I think you've entered a new phase. Like, obviously, we're not in that phase yet. Y' all probably currently are. Yeah. So, yeah. [00:56:37] Speaker C: You're close to being done with buying diapers. [00:56:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:40] Speaker C: You know, because he's starting kind of the potty training type thing. That's a crazy, crazy time. That's something that we talked a lot about is, are we ready? If we could guarantee we were gonna have. We were gonna have a girl for the fifth, we would. [00:56:52] Speaker A: Had a fifth. Really. [00:56:53] Speaker C: You just can't guarantee it. And I. I'm such a big believer in this. As we talked about, like, bringing boys into manhood, I know the responsibility it's gonna take. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Like, and you got three of them. [00:57:02] Speaker C: I don't think I've seen anybody do what I plan to do, like, tangibly, you know, I don't think I've ever seen any dad get. Be as involved as I plan to be involved, other than maybe on social media or whatever where you're getting snippets. Right. Significant amount of responsibility that I'm feeling. And I don't. Four boys would be like, that's a lot. Because I plan on traveling with them, taking them to third world countries. I plan on doing, like, man Year. You know what the book talks about kind of in a coming into manhood type thing where you're going to be there, there's a ceremony involved. There's a lot of things that are involved with this. And I got to do that three times. The fourth was like, man, if that is the case. So the other thing we talked about is I always pictured as a boulder rolling uphill. [00:57:39] Speaker B: You're. [00:57:40] Speaker C: You're getting to the top, and then you gotta have another kid. And it's like, we got rhythms in place. The kids are good, chores are in place. Everything's good. And then come back down, sleep goes [00:57:47] Speaker A: back out the window. [00:57:47] Speaker C: Exactly. Sleeps out the window. Kids are in chaos. You know, things like that. And you try to maintain structure. You step in and do a good job with Allison, trying to help her, but it's like the boulders down at the bottom. And on this last one with Duncan, and there's a lot of health. Alyssa was having more health issues. She'd have to get, like, blood transfusions and such. And if she didn't, if she had problems and complications in birth, she could die because she's got, you know, issues with her blood that is very, very rare. So she'd have to basically give herself blood throughout the pregnancy if we had another one. So there's multiple reasons why we decided not to, but either way, that was a big thing. Is rolling that boulder up the hill. I am kind of excited about this phase of life. And that's maybe where my comfort question comes in. [00:58:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:24] Speaker C: Like, I don't want to get comfortable. I want to figure out, what does that look like going forward? And it is stepping more into. Especially Harrison's going to be eight this year. I feel like more responsibility. And no, he's not a man, but, like. [00:58:36] Speaker A: And it's the homeschool phase, too. [00:58:38] Speaker C: And the homeschool figures. [00:58:38] Speaker A: We're not in that right now. Right. [00:58:40] Speaker C: So now Lachlan. Yeah, Lachlan starting. And yeah, Harrison's gonna be going into second or second grade. And so, yeah, it just changes the dynamic. But the really cool thing is, like, family worship's really good, you know, because now they're all singing. Duncan has no idea what we're singing. He can barely talk. He's in speech therapy. But he's. He gets along with it. Right. The crazy thing is he's actually really on Key like he could be a great singer if we could understand what he was saying. It just. We can't. That's. I meant to ask you guys about your thoughts on K Pop off air, but I meant to ask you guys your thoughts on that. [00:59:16] Speaker A: That can't be a thing. [00:59:17] Speaker C: That's not gonna think deeper. I'll have to ask you after because I'm. I don't. I don't know. I was going off to Brayden. [00:59:22] Speaker A: I know that I have a take on K Pop. Yeah. [00:59:23] Speaker C: I was going off to Braden and Alyssa on all of these non English music coming in like we're losing. Americana, man. We're losing. I'm very against it. All of these people that are singing along to BTS the songs in. In Korean. It's like, no, dog, this is America, man. And my. My wife's like, well, what's the problem with. And I'm like, it's just inherently I'm singing in somebody else's language. I feel like I've been, you know, like, what's going on here? Anyway, sorry. Yeah, just stay to the end of [00:59:49] Speaker A: the episode for Joe's K Pop tapes. Yeah. [00:59:51] Speaker C: Oh, man. I'm just against. [00:59:52] Speaker A: That's hilarious. [00:59:53] Speaker C: Bad Bunny comes in with all his Spanish. [00:59:55] Speaker B: Like don't start that one again. No, no. [00:59:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Speaking trans. So anyway, sorry, but I say all that to say that as far as it goes with the start or the. This phase of life, we are pretty excited for that reason. [01:00:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:08] Speaker C: Like we get into it's challenges for sure, but different challenges. You guys really curious to see how you do because baby challenges and challenges of an eight year old Gloria are two completely different challenges. And juggling that is. It takes special parents, you know, to be able to do that. [01:00:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:25] Speaker C: So good for you guys. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Yeah, more. [01:00:27] Speaker A: I guess we'll. We'll find out in six months, a year how things are going. Yeah. [01:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, no kidding. [01:00:32] Speaker A: I felt bad. I thought we were gonna have to take maybe Jack was gonna take a month off for thing deeper whenever the twins came. But we'll see. [01:00:37] Speaker C: Are we? Yeah, I was gonna say maybe ramps up and work right next month. [01:00:40] Speaker B: Who knows? [01:00:41] Speaker A: More productive. [01:00:42] Speaker C: Who knows? [01:00:43] Speaker B: On point, on schedule. Yeah. [01:00:44] Speaker A: Well, we appreciate everybody listening. This has been a bit of an unorthodox episode. Just kind of exploring and very, very free flowing. But hopefully you enjoyed the discussion. Hopefully. Whether it was the, you know, maybe family and becoming a man woman discussion or the pop culture stuff at the end that we covered. Let us know your thoughts, comments, anything else from you guys. [01:01:03] Speaker B: I will say we talked about men rite of passage Joe and I have been workshopping I say workshopping. It is a workshop. We've been working on an idea for men's retreats Thursday to Saturday kind of thing looking at next spring for the first one and I just put up a website excellentmen.work right now it's a Google form. It's just telling us a little bit about you where you're from kind of you know, a couple things so if you're and it gives you can give us your email address so you're on the list for when we have something to announce. So it's excellentmen Work which I guess is a URL these days is dot work so and that works out cool. So check that out for again we're trying to help guys really get to where they want to be so that's all I've got. Hit us up on the deep end as always focuspress.org/ and we'll talk to you on the next one. [01:01:47] Speaker C: It.