[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome in to Think Deeper podcast. Jack Wilkie here, joined by Joe Wilkie and Will Harab, presented by Focus Press. Once again, we are diving into, well, we're going in a little bit of a different direction this time. We're kind of sharing some of our own ways within which we want to grow and hoping that's relatable as it's kind of like not everybody's going to relate to every point, but you also realize you don't share every struggle. Everything that you think is, I'm the only one who's bad about this. No, there's a lot of people are. And so kind of finding common ground, encouraging and hoping maybe we can come up with some tips to get better at some of these things. And so ways in which we personally want to grow is kind of our theme for this week.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: I would say it's really important to be self aware in all aspects of life, but from a spiritual perspective especially to know what are my blind spots? What are the things specifically that I'm not good at?
What are the things. Yeah, that are areas that I really want to grow in. And I think, I think it's important for Christians to take time often to reflect on those things. And our goal for this episode is to go beyond kind of the standard cliche, I need to pray and study more type of answers. Like, I think most people in the church would probably have that on their list somewhere of like, man, I'm not quite as good at prayer as I want to be or man, I wish I had more time to study like and I, to be fair, I don't know any of you guys, your guys, answers. We have not previewed those. But yeah, we want to get a little bit deeper with this self awareness type episode of, you know, things that we wish we were, we were stronger, better at from a spiritual perspective. So Joe, any introductory thoughts?
[00:01:48] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean we were really trying to dig somewhat deep like you said, the surface level, everybody struggles to some degree on the average ones of, you know, the praying three times a day. Yeah, that's nice. That'd be great. Not great at that. But we're really going to try to dig a little deeper on some of those things that. Yeah. And you know, if we're the only one struggling, I don't think we are. If we're the only ones struggling, we can help each other. But hopefully this is an encouragement to those that are listening just to maybe pick up on something here, there and to realize you're not alone if you hear this you go, man. I struggle with that too.
Well, you're not alone. And hopefully we can give some advice to each other and encourage each other and by proxy, kind of encourage you.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: All right, I guess I'll go first. Throw myself out there.
Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna say relationship building.
I was gonna say evangelism. But the reason I'm not good at evangelism is I'm not good at relationship building. I'm not good at making new friends, making contacts, kind of putting myself out there or whatever. But that goes over into the church building. That goes over into other areas of life where the just really kind of staying connected with people and building that rapport and keeping it going. Not my strongest suit.
Part of it is working from home. You know, I was home schooled. Part of my college education was online. And then most of my job has been working from home my entire life. And so it's like, you don't get out and make friends. You don't get out and just chat with people and cut it up a little bit. And so that leads to a lack of evangelism opportunities, but also leads to a. You just grow comfortable being almost like a hermit. And I think I struggle with that because of who I am in my own history. But as time goes on more and more, especially post 2020 with remote work, with the way the world has changed, the AI world, social media, everybody's gonna have to be working on this a lot here. You know, like, I'm not gonna be the only one with this struggle. And I think more and more of us struggle with this all the time.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: This is a great one.
I work obviously for Chick Fil A and me and my operator meet every week. One of the things he brought up is how a lot of other specifically quick service restaurants are probably going to move to like kiosk type ordering. Less face to face interaction.
And obviously at Chick Fil a there will probably, hopefully, Lord willing, there will never be any plans to do that because that face to face human interaction is so vital, it's so powerful. And Jack, I think that's a great point about kind of the direction that society is headed is less face to face interaction, more. I mean, the three of us are on a podcast right now via a screen, right?
So there's just going to be more of that. I think this is a really good thing. I had two follow up questions I was going to ask you about this one. The first thing that I was curious about is you were a preacher for a number of years. It Wasn't like a small amount of time. And so I'm curious, kind of what how you feel like you fared from as far as the struggle goes during that time frame. And then my other question was going to be for your own kids, if you see. I think for all of us, we'd probably say if we see something as a struggle in ourselves, that we're gonna do everything we can to basically make that not a struggle for our kids, because we can see it, we anticipate it. So that was the other question I had, is like, is there anything in particular you're planning to do with your kids to try to get them to a point where this is not a struggle for them when they hit their 20s or whatever it is. So kind of two different questions there.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Yeah, those are great questions. The preaching thing. This is kind of a thing people don't understand if you haven't been the preacher, but preachers will talk about it. It's hard to build friendships when you're a preacher because you're kind of employed by the people that you're becoming a friend with, and people are coming to you as an authority or because, you know, they need something because of the job that you hold.
And so that. It's very hard to turn that into a friendship. There's, like a distance there. Yeah, you're interacting with the people all the time, but as, like, being a genuine friend with them, that's something that takes some extra work. It's a little bit different than, oh, I struck up a conversation, we had something in common. It's no. They come to this building where I work, and I'm somebody that, you know, is here to serve them.
But, you know, and so there's that weird dynamic. And I do have friends, you know, that from my ministry days, where it did outgrow that. But some of that was because of who they are. Just very outgoing and encouraging people and just people you like hanging around.
So that challenge. You can be a personable guy as a preacher, but it's as a preacher and not as yourself, if that makes sense. And then as far as passing it on to the kids, that's a really good question.
I mean, that's the homeschool kids always get the socialization question anyway.
And so getting the kids out into trail life and heritage girls and soccer for Robbie and things like that, just trying to get them active and around other kids is very important to us.
And just letting them go be themselves in that, you know, that they're not there under mom and Dad's thumb. But like, hey, go talk to the other kids. Don't just hang out with me. Because that's their tendency when you first take them, right, Is, yeah, you know, oh, I'll just sit next to dad. Like, no, you sit next to dad all the time. Go talk to somebody. But that's what I would do too. And so it's like, like you say, helping your kids overcome your own weaknesses.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: I think briefly. Sorry, one thought on that is, and I know we can't spend 30 minutes, I know on each point here, so sorry. And Joe hadn't even gotten in here yet. But man, one of the things that I really want to help develop in my kids is almost like an aversion to small talk.
Small talk does not get you. Relationship building does not get you to where you need to be for relationships.
Keeping your conversation to sports in the weather is just, again, you're never going to build a relationship there. And so teaching my kids, ask questions about them when you're. And obviously this is, we're mainly talking within the context of a church family getting to know your church family, but maybe even, you know, co workers or somebody you want to be good friends with. Like, man, talk about important stuff, talk about them, talk about, or ask questions about their life and just be curious. Joe, I know you're a big prone of curiosity in relationships and things like that. And so, yeah, I think that's something that I view as pretty important to develop when you're trying to build those relationships is man, get below that surface level. I think it's a great addition, Jack.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: Well, to the preacher point, I think it's interesting how many preachers are introverts.
And you'd think, well, that's got to be the most gregarious guy of the congregation.
Not a lot of the time. And the reason why is you spend most of your week, you know, or a lot of your week in study, in Bible study and you know, maybe writing things, writing bulletin articles or writing articles the way you did like and do that is a very intellectual pursuit in a lot of ways. And that can be a great draw for preachers to be like, man, I get to study God's word and I get to present these things. And that's great. And even getting out, away from the public speaking, I think can be a, you know, that can be done. But the day to day conversations I think can be really difficult for a lot of preachers. So I don't think you're alone in that. The question I had for you do you think this is an internal issue or an external issue? And what I mean by that is, is this due to not trusting people or to the cynicism that you have toward people, or is this due to something internally that keeps you from connection with people?
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah, part of it's just lack of reps. Right. Like, you have to put yourself out there. And so it's. I enjoy people when I'm around people, but, like, it's just so easy. And that was my point about the social media and work from home and all that. It's so easy to become a hermit. It's easier than ever to just be a total hermit and not have anybody you talk to. And, you know, part of living here where we do now, it's great being around family as much as we are, but then it becomes easy where that's your entire social circle. Is going to mom and Dad's house, hanging out with Joe and my kids, with their cousins become a bit of a crutch? Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, oh, well, we got socialization, like, yeah, but. And again, on the evangelistic point, I'm never going to evangelize somebody because I never talked to anybody. You're not going to have any friends, people to hang out with, somebody to call up and say, hey, come on over for dinner, things like that. You have to build that. And it's the easiest thing in the world to not build that. It's the easiest thing in the world to say, I'm busy. It's the easiest thing in the world. But so much of Christianity is having a genuine interest in other people, is loving other people to one another, commandments and all of those things that we're called to do. And, man, if we all just stay separate in our own homes and then maybe get together at the church building for a church function, okay, then that's not going to happen. And again, the evangelistic thing takes another level because church can become a crutch. Right. Like, I've got my relationships there. Well, we're never going to evangelize anybody if none of us talk to somebody who's not in that room. And so it takes some real intentionality.
[00:10:37] Speaker C: So the solution then for you to, you know, maybe a goal that you might work on then is intentionally putting yourself in places with other people.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: And intentionally looking to talk with other people. I've had this thought of, like, man, just going to. And you used to do this very well at Latham Bakery in. In Forney, where you'd go and you had A lot of relationships with people where at one point I think they let you work behind the.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: No, no.
It was the kind of walk in and everybody knows your name kind of thing though. So that's what I think.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: At one point you stepped back there to help, but either way, they knew you very well. They always knew your name.
I don't know if there was a depth of relationship that connected after that, but I think it's just the reps that you put in, as you said, of just going to the same place, seeing the same faces, talking with him, striking up. Yeah, maybe some small talk there, but with the intention of going a little deeper. To me, that is how it's done. And just putting in the reps of having maybe a spot that you can then work on and build out from there.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah, getting uncomfortable more than anything is the key to this one.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Let me go ahead and get into mine. I think it's tangentially. My first one is it's kind of tangentially related to what Jack's bringing up here. I tried to attach Bible verses to each of mine. The first answer that I have is I wish I was better at seeing opportunities to do good for people, to serve people.
I think about so Galatians 6, 9 and 10. Let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we should reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let's do good to all, especially those who are of the household of faith. Now you can interpret that a lot of different ways.
Doing good is a very ambiguous term. Is it talking about giving money to people? Is it talking about serving people? Is it talking my hospitality? I think all of those things could apply specifically to the household of faith and man. What I want to be better at is seeing those opportunities I can get so tunnel visioned into my plate of responsibilities.
My agenda for the week, my things that I want to either either A have to get done this week or B want to do either with my family or whatever it is that I really don't feel like I'm great at this, of seeing the opportunities to do good for somebody who just got out of surgery at our congregation or you know, even something as simple as shooting a text again, bringing a meal to somebody, even from a hospitality standpoint. My wife and I love the congregation that we have placed membership at now and we've been there for eight months or so.
We have got to be better at having people over and a lot of it is just due to once again, our kind of tunnel Vision. With everything we got going on this week, everything that we've, we just keep our plate very full.
And so I think because of that, my vision is clouded where I don't see those opportunities quite as well. Matthew 25, obviously, is the other reference I would bring up about, you know, that that's more about kind of really, really needy people, obviously feeding the hungry and clothing the naked and visiting those in prison, things like that. So, yeah, that's my first answer is just I need to put myself in a position to see those needs more, whether it's, you know, again, from a giving financially perspective, whether it's a, you know, this family just had a baby or just got a surgery, whatever, let's bring them a meal, stuff like that, that I just feel like me, as the spiritual leader of my household, we're not great at and that we need to get better at.
[00:13:47] Speaker C: So do you think you see those opportunities, you just don't feel you have time to capitalize on them, or do you genuinely not? You know, because, for instance, like if they are announcing it from the pulpit or something, hey, so and so is needing meals or whatever. Like, I suppose that's kind of one that's dropped in your. Dropped in your lap, I guess.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: But yeah.
[00:14:07] Speaker C: Do you think it's just a failure to be able to genuinely see them or due to busyness, you just don't feel you have the opportunity to capitalize?
[00:14:14] Speaker B: No. That's a great question.
I think for stuff like that, for like, stuff that's announced, I do feel like we, you know, do a pretty good job of, of making sure that we are doing what we can. I think it's, it's seeing. My answer would be. I struggle to see the not so obvious ones. The, the, like there's, there are people out there.
They. It's almost like they have a radar on who's struggling, who needs an encouraging text, who could really use a meal, who is in need of financial help or whatever it is. And so they're not relying on the announcements or the bulletin. And so, like, that would be my. I wish I was good at that. I wish I was kind of saying, man, that person looks like they're having a rough week. Let me go, let me go talk to them and just kind of see what's going on.
So that's a great question, Joe. My answer would be more so of the former is that I just want to be able to see those not so obvious one, you know, right in front of you, announcement type things and maybe anticipate them more? I'm not sure, but yeah, that's a great question.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Because there's part of this that is people's giftedness and we praise God that that's their gift and we hold them up because they are exercising that gift. But so much of it is okay, but we can all do some of it, right? We all can be better at that. We all can contribute to that in some way. And so this is a good one of just mindfulness and thinking outside of ourselves, which again, our society.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: I don't think I'm alone in kind of that tunnel vision thing for families. What have I got going on? What practices do we have this week?
That's why hospitality has died among most churches of Christ, is because we are so laser focused on what we've got to do. And I'm preaching to myself here. I think there's an element of we got our plates too full. Like we've just got too much going on. And that does really inhibit this, you know, finding and look really seeing opportunities to do good.
[00:16:09] Speaker C: I definitely get that. And I, that's. I was going to talk about that with Jack. You know, you see people that are just naturally drawn toward that, they naturally see it. And I'm not, I'm the same. You know, I'm not necessarily the.
The guy looking for those opportunities. My wife is more inclined that way. She sees opportunities to step in and help and she does a great job of that. So sometimes she can, she can help me see some of those things. But I do think that would be part of the solution is just having people around you that can help point to some of those things. Even if it's a somewhat of a blind spot. I'm with you.
I don't know if I'd call it a blind. I guess it'd be a blind spot. Like I don't always see those and I certainly don't always step into those. And so, yeah, maybe having other people that are able to see those for you and help you gain some eyes to see opportunities would be really good. And that's why I'm a big believer in mentorship. I'm not good at it, you know, finding a mentor and such, but I am a big believer in having a mentor who might be able. Who's wiser and older who might be able to help draw you into some of those things. And so that's something I pray for, is for God to bring a mentor, somebody that might be able to guide me in some of those areas. So, yeah, I definitely get it?
[00:17:15] Speaker A: So much of this, both mine and yours, comes from a.
The abundance mindset, right? That like you are set in who you are. You're comfortable in your walk with God and your schedule, your time. And like you, you've got breathing room. I think so much of our modern day is so much stress, so much just go, go, go, go, go, that you don't have the time to. There's no margins. Yeah. And so to look up and look around and find out who somebody I can chat with or have over for dinner or do something nice for or what's going on in their world. Because I'm dealing so much with what's in my world. I've got so much stress on me that I don't, you know, the, the like put on your own mask before you help somebody else kind of thing. And that more time with God I think is underlying a lot of this where you're just fully at peace. It helps toward that. But there's still a need to be disciplined and structured and kind of have your own life set to the point where you can be better at those things. And that's hard. I mean, that is something that takes some time to get to that place. But we all love the kind of people who are the person who cares about other people, the person who notices other people, the person who's encouraging other people, the person who's doing for other people, as you're saying.
But those are all people who are very comfortable in themselves. Like they, they know who they are. They've got their life kind of structured well and disciplined people and all of those kinds of things.
It's a lot of groundwork, I guess, is what I'm saying. But it can be done.
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[00:20:01] Speaker C: Hey fellas, I'm gonna, gonna move to mine. So it's in the same vein, so I'll appreciate any help. Mine is balancing everything and maintaining strength, spiritually speaking, maintaining a strong spirituality.
As our listeners know, Will and I do the Godly Amen podcast. We talk a lot about what it means to be a man, all the areas we kind of need to be in charge of.
And you know, with a business, with, with working on that, working on the relationship with wife, with kids, with obviously with clients, with the podcast, running the podcast, trying to maintain still some level of connection to the local church, you know, work on things there with.
I mean, I don't even have hobbies. I don't even have things like that. But you're pushing into goals and just the home structure and help my wife with, you know, things around the house and, you know, just things, life, you know how it is.
A lot of times that's where the spirituality gets lost and then you end up doing it performatively.
So, for instance, like this year, I've been praying on my knees and I've been, I've been reading through scripture every single day. And I actually had a. I took a day off purposely. I took a day off earlier this week because I realized I've been doing the last thing at the day and I've been like falling asleep to it. Well, that's not what I'm doing this for is it becomes a box to check. A box to check. Correct? Yeah. Rather than I really am desiring to get on my knees, desiring to read through scripture, really engaging with what it has to say. And so to me, my biggest struggle is maintaining a level, a strong level of spirituality while trying to keep every other plate spinning that happens to be in life, and then setting boundaries to not take more plates on, which I'm not really good at either. And so you end up taking 12 plates and it's like, which one do I drop? Do I drop kids activities when what we're doing there? Well, no, I'm not going to do that. Do I drop podcasts? Well, I'm not going to do that. Do I drop clients? Well, to some degree, you know, I can maybe restructure my schedule in time, but not currently.
My relationship with my wife, you know, sex life, things like that, like, you got to work on these things, you got to balance these things. And that a lot of times, like, you end up either dropping every plate, which I don't want to do. You know, people burn out and drop every plate, or they learn to scale back or something. But spirituality, a lot of times gets put on the back burner. So I throw that to you guys as my, my resident therapist.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: We're trying to solve your problem here.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, thoughts on it? Do you ever experience that?
[00:22:24] Speaker A: It's the easiest thing, right? Like work you have to do, feeding the kids you have to do. You know, certain things you have to do.
Other things are more regimented. But as far as, like, actually just walking with God, you know, that's when it comes to things that get cut from the day. And that's not a good thing. I'm just saying that's a natural thing of like, oh, you know, well, I didn't. Didn't have time to do this. You never say, well, boss, I didn't have time to make it into work today. I was praying, you know, like.
But it does take that intentionality, which is why the Bible has so much about having to seek God. You know, Jeremiah 29:13, if you'll find me when you search me and find me when you seek for me with all your heart, it takes that wholehearted. I just want to walk with God. I just want to know Him. I just want to be closer to Him. And so finding the balance with those other things. And as I said at the top, these are our struggles. I think this is very relatable stuff for a lot of people of.
Did you get your Bible open today?
No, I did it a few times this week. Or. Well, you know, it hadn't been a good week for that, but I'll try again next week. Or. Well, how has your prayer time been? How's your devotional life with your family or with your spouse been? You know, things like that, the making time for the spiritual among. Where as you're saying with all those things, it feels like you can't make time for a lot of things and that being one of them. And so how are you going to get them all crammed in, including the spiritual one? But there is also that feeling that I'm sure you guys have been there too, when you have that part of your life dialed in, when the spiritual, when you're making Time for it, when the priorities are set right. The other stuff does seem to come a little more naturally. Like if you just get up and pray and have time in the Bible you've set yourself up for with discipline, but also like the walk with God and there's some peace to the other things that you're going to go about and things like that. So I'm not saying that makes it any easier, but it does.
It's more of a motivation to get it done. Realizing, yeah, this will help me in a lot of ways.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really good. I have a lot of thoughts on this. Joe. I think you and I have talked that we share certain similar similarities here.
As I think about kind of this conundrum, there's only certain things you can increase.
We can't increase our hours in the day. Like, we just can't. We all have 24.
You can decrease the amount of hours you sleep, but then that's gonna take years off your life. So that's not good. You can't increase the hours of your life.
In my eyes, there's really only two things that you can increase.
You can increase your capacity.
We talk a lot about this. So, like, I have a.
I would say kind of in all of life, I have a similar perspective as Joe here, but also uniquely within my role, what I do for a living. As the operations director for Chick Fil A, I'm responsible for the entire restaurant, literally all of it. The front of house, the back of house, the finding the profit loss statement at the end of the month. And, you know, what's. What does our profit look like? How much are we spending on X, Y or Z? What's our team morale look like? How's our hiring? How's our staffing? How's our community outreach? How's our marketing? Like, literally all of it?
Well, that is a lot of plates in and of itself. And so one of the things we talk about with leaders specifically is, you know, it's not healthy to work 60 hours a week. So how do you increase your capacity, the ability to do more without, you know, putting in necessarily more hours?
And so from a, you know, taking it to all of life from that perspective, that's one way is to just increase your capacity. And that. That can be difficult. Obviously, you're not going to farm out or delegate your spiritual life. You're not going to farm out or delegate your raising of your kids. So that. Right. And so that. That. That's not really what I'm talking about. But the other way is to increase your discipline. Jack kind of hit at this.
Increasing the discipline, increasing the structure of getting up a little bit earlier or, you know, maintaining, hey, this night is going to be family night, or, you know, again, just being very disciplined and very structured with. Because another thing I don't. Joe, you might have mentioned, I don't know, physical exercise. We're all believers in that. Like, we need to be spending portions of our day doing that. And, man, talk about something that can just go out the window the busier we get. I've spoken more in this in the last seven days or four days, five days than I've spoken in a while. I've spoken three times the last four days. And let's just say exercise kind of went out the window this week because I was prepping lessons on top of my normal job and stuff like that. And so, man, there is stuff that can just get dropped. And so that's where the increasing your discipline, increasing your productivity comes in as well.
I'm not given anything that people don't really already know.
As I said in my previous answer, there is a point to where I ask myself, do I have too much on my plate?
And Joe, I don't want to speak for you, but I know in our conversations before, you've maybe shared, hey, maybe I do have too much on my plate. Because even with increasing capacity and increasing discipline, increasing productivity, there is still a ceiling. There is still a certain level you reach where it's like, I can't adequately give time to disciple my kids, to exercise my body, to serve the church, to do good for the household of faith, as I just got done talking about. And so. So the balance is important, I think, Jack, I guess, to wrap up my thoughts. Jack's point about making sure the spiritual walk is rock solid and everything else somewhat falling into place after that, I think is the best point.
Making sure that that's not the seventh item on the to do list. Like, no, I'm going to work my life around that, including my job, including my business or my, you know, whatever it is. So, yeah, I said all those things to basically say that Jack had the best point, and I should have just echoed him with that. So. But, yeah, those are my thoughts, because I struggle with the same thing.
[00:28:08] Speaker C: No, and that's. That's legitimate. And I know one of the ways that you navigate this and kind of stay disciplined is like you regiment everything on your Google calendar, right? And I can appreciate that the struggle is, you know, I was talking with my wife about this, like, and this is a family problem. This is not just a me problem. I think this is a Wilkie problem. We are rigid. We have no flow. We have no. I was talking to Jack about this, too. Like I said, I watched this reel, stupid John Krasinski reel of him doing something on Jimmy Fallon. And he just kind of was like. You could tell he was lost in the moment to some degree. Like, he just. He was almost in a flow state, having a good time, Having a good time, cutting up. You know, just being loose. And it's like, I've never been that loose in my life.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: You don't do that? Well, that is.
[00:28:50] Speaker C: No, not in the least. And I think that's part of the problem when it comes to spirituality is there's no flow state. There's no looseness. There's no. It's like it's. It's a rigid part of my structure, which. Yes, you want to get it part of your life. To Jack's point, the problem is it then becomes rote. Right. A lot of times, if you're not careful, it just becomes something that I fit into my schedule rather than the relationship with God. Like, I don't fit my relationship with my wife into my schedule as much as I just can't wait to talk with her. And I want to get there with God. And sometimes I am, and sometimes I'm not. And I think the busier I am, the more I do feel the need to be more rigid, to try to keep things on the rails.
And that's not always good either. In the past, that's where addiction came from. I'm not, you know, I. By the grace of God, I'm not dealing with that anymore. On the other hand, it's the same concept of, like, man, I need to get into a flow state. And so that is going to be my main challenge for myself is figuring out how do I get to be loose and not so rigid with everything and really genuinely desire that relationship with God?
[00:29:47] Speaker B: Because the other problem with it making it so rigid and structured is it feels like an obligation.
It feels like just another duty almost of like, oh, I gotta get this done. I gotta get that done. I gotta get my Bible reading done. And that's what it's becoming. That's not what you want. Yeah.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I was preaching on the prodigal last night, and the prodigal brother comes to mind of, like, being in the father's house with him was just work. It was not. He never enjoyed the benefits of being in his father's house. And that it can become that if you're not careful. Like, yes, I have to have my spiritual time. Yes, I know I'm supposed to do this. Yes, it'll help other things out. So I'm gonna, you know, make time for it. Versus, like, kind of what you're saying, just that seeking it out in the same way you seek out a conversation with your wife or time with a friend or, you know, family time, whatever it is. Like, it's because you. What you want to do. And so that is the. The perspective that kind of needs to be brought to it all. And so that's the first round of them. Mine was.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: I brought three to the table. I hope we're gonna get to them all. Yeah.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: So mine was getting better. Building relationships, especially with a mind toward evangelism.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Will, yours was seeing opportunities to do good.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: Seeing opportunities to do good. And then, Joe.
Yeah.
[00:30:58] Speaker C: I don't know how you want to classify mine. I guess balancing everything and maintaining spirituality.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
All right. So mine for the second round is dealing with cynicism and pessimism and things like that.
There's a negativity towards people, towards events, towards the world, towards.
And people will say, you're too negative in your writing. It's like, well, man, I'm trying to be realistic. And when things are bad, the realistic person is going to look like a negative person. But there still needs to be a joy that comes out of it as Christian soldiers. The happy warrior kind of stereotype that we're having a good time even as we're fighting an uphill battle, that we're not beaten down. We're not.
Everything's just terrible all the time. And I think that's the tone sometimes people get from us, from my writing.
And I don't want that to be. I want it to be, hey, have a good time here. Even while we're being realistic. Because I think some of the people that we get frustrated with are people who are not realistic. Everything's great. You know, everything's. There's no problems whatsoever. You know, everything is fine. Don't worry about anything. Like, no, there's real problems that we need to acknowledge.
But acknowledging them should not mean I'm grumpy all the time. I'm, you know, just. I can't feel happy about anything or anything like that. Like, having some kind of balance between realism and not. Not letting that drive you into cynicism and negativity of, you know, even when, you know, James, when he says, consider it all joy. When you counter encounter various trials like in Philippians 4, rejoice in the Lord always. Verses like that tell you even when you're going through hard stuff, you can still do it with that positive mindset. And that's a struggle sometimes.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: This is another good addition.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Not to speak for you, Jack. I think you're writing, it's interesting.
Your job, in a way, is to kind of identify and point out things that need to be improved.
And I do think, to your point, that can sometimes be perceived as negative and perceived as overly cynical, when in reality it's like, no, that's just kind of what I. That's kind of what I do. We've on this podcast very similarly. Like, if every single episode was about how great everything is and how great we're all doing, it wouldn't be very interesting and it wouldn't be very listened to. Right. So there's an element of that. But I also, again, not to speak for you, I can imagine how when that's kind of the way that you view things and view every news story and view, you know, church things, like, it can kind of shape your thinking into, you know, looking for the cynical point of view, looking for the negative point of view at times. Like. Like that being the first lens you look through as opposed to the joyful one. And so I think again, you bring you referencing your writing. There's an interesting point because that's just kind of how, again, I think that's my perspective is that's probably the first lens through which you, you look at certain things. And yeah, I'm a big, big proponent. Biblically speaking of man, Christians need to be the most joyful people on the planet. Not unrealistic, not heading our sand, head in the sand. Oh, everything's, you know, just absolutely peachy and nothing to worry about. No, but that we should have an inner joy that, that is, that is evident, that is radiant, that other people look at and go, man, they've got something that I don't. They. I'm missing something that those people have. And obviously it's the, the saving grace of Christ and being a child of God and having eternal hope that should be the source of that joy.
So I'm not throwing this question at you. It's more of just kind of an overarching point here is that, man, that balance of understanding the times and seeing the need for appropriate calling out of certain things and maybe a certain, call it negativity, realism, while also maintaining that joy is a tough balance, I'm sure. So that's. Yeah, those are Kind of my contributing thoughts there, Joe?
[00:34:58] Speaker C: Well, it's actually, it steps on my second one, which is.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: Well, I would say go ahead then. Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:03] Speaker C: I mean, it's all one in the same. So. And this is why I bring it up, the finding peace and joy.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Maybe this is that your second one, Finding peace and joy.
[00:35:14] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe this is an us problem. And I think there's a lot of people that do struggle with this. But I do think that the cynicism.
Our family has been cynical at times. I'd like to say realistic that, you know, in a lot of those situations, but I think cynicism is something that.
It's one of those. And I deal with this in therapy all the time where like, we will drop the shoe on ourselves or we will be very, very cynical. That way we're not caught off guard if something bad happens.
[00:35:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Pessimist's hedge of like, well, if I imagine the worst case scenario, I can only be pleasantly surprised if it's any better.
[00:35:47] Speaker C: Right? Yeah, There you go. There you go. And I think we have a lot of that that, you know, it's, it's a. You almost assume things will go wrong. We don't have the glasses half full approach of like, hey, things are going to be okay. Like, well, historically speaking, that's not always the case. And so we find ourselves a lot of the time heading more, less toward a peaceful, joyful life and more toward just a hedging. And that's where the lack of faith comes in, is, you know, God does work all things out for good. I've been through some terrible stuff in my life and not nothing compared to a lot of other people, but still bad things God has always seen me through. And so I do think there's a level of faith that we need to be able to grow in and say, no matter how bad it gets, God, I know you're good. The struggle though is that there, there can be a rosy tinted, like, well, I know God is good. I know I'll see him. He's through. Like, yeah. He also saw Israel through 70 years of captivity. He also saw Israel or he saw the Northern Kingdom go into Assyrian captivity and never really return. He saw Judah go. So God was in control.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: It was bad for a lot of people. Yeah, correct.
[00:36:48] Speaker C: It was very bad. A lot of people died. God was still in control. So there's no. That's where my mind goes, is like, yes, God's in control when it says it's going to turn out good. That doesn't necessarily mean Just for me, it means God's will is going to be served. And that's. Excuse me, that's what we have to hang our hat on, is God's will is going to be served one way or the other. And we have to be okay with that, even if it's at the expense of us, our happiness, our life, our peace, things like that. But I do want to find peace in that. I do want to find joy in God and not be so cynical toward.
And people see this on the podcast, I'm sure when they listen to this. What I worry about is that we cover a lot of serious topics and we burn people out. I'm very aware that that could possibly be the case, because sometimes I feel burnt out. You know, as we are discussing, it's like, man, this is a really serious topic, and the next one's a really serious topic. And that's why we try to break it up with little levity and some fun ones, because I realize how difficult sometimes this can be when it's just bad, bad, bad, bad.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: It's like people in the news every single day.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Correct?
[00:37:46] Speaker B: It just drains you, man.
[00:37:47] Speaker C: It's a train wreck. Like, we need to be able to step outside and breathe. That is.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: That is the funny thing, though, as well. We've gotten to this exact comment a number of times, whether to the podcast or to my writing over the years. Don't we do anything right? Can't you guys say something positive? It's like, we do. And nobody listens to that episode. Nobody reads that article. They don't care. Like, hey, here is, you know, all the reasons to be joyful about being a Christian or what, how great it is to be a Christian or man, things that the Church of Christ does, right? Or whatever.
They don't care. Like that.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: That.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: That's not on anybody's register. But it's, hey, when we could do better about X, Y, or Z, or here's this problem that the church, modern church has or whatever.
People tune in for that because they're interested, but they also see the problems and things like that. And so I think about Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, right? Diagnosing a lot of really evil things in Israel, is also the guy that, in the middle of that, in a book called Lamentations, because he's lamenting, writes, the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They're new every morning. Like, you got to have that side of it in the midst of being realistic about. There are things to be lamented too. And so striking that balance is hard.
But I don't know, having a hopefulness, having a. Not seeing the worst in people, not holding.
Nobody wants to be evaluated at their worst. Well, a group of people don't want to be evaluated at their worst or they're. The pessimist thing is kind of looking at the, the lowest possible outcome and saying, okay, I'm going to focus on that and just try and build up from there. The optimist looks at the greatest outcome. Well, let's work towards that. And if we fall a little bit short of it, we're still doing pretty good. Whereas the pessimist is like, well, as long as we don't end up there, then I guess it'll be okay, you know, like. But that's a way of hedging against yourself and your own disappointments. And it's, it's just attempting to have control that we don't have. Anyway.
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[00:40:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And I know we need to get in the next one, but I was just going to say, once again, I'll bring up my kids here. Man. I really pray to be able to instill in my kids and a spirit of joy. And a lot of it comes from gratitude.
For what? God, you know, being grateful, acknowledging the things that God has blessed us with. And see your point, Jack, about lamentations, even in the midst of life difficulties or tragedy or, you know, the economy. Like all these things that, you know, maybe we just, we should or have the right to be cynical about, of being having that inner state of joy. I think once again, I really pray to pass it on to my kids. Is that they're just joyful people. So I think it's a great one. I'm gonna go ahead and get into my second one.
One of the things I wish I was better at is receiving feedback and criticism.
I think this is very much a young person tendency. I don't know how much longer I get to call myself a young person, by the way. You guys can, can be the judge of that.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: I mean, I still time still run
[00:41:25] Speaker B: the Godly Young Men podcast and I'm in my 20s, so I will still claim that title. But no, I think about Titus 2. I think about so 6 through 8. Likewise exhort the young men to be sober minded and all things, showing yourself to be a pattern of good works and doctrine, showing integrity, reverence, and incorruptibility.
We typically go to this section to discuss, you know, older women teaching younger women. And so I think it's a reasonable parallel to consider this. Even though he's talking to Titus, but talking about older men teaching younger men. And that is something that I wish I was better at receiving, you know, criticism. I don't think I'm awful at it, but I do think naturally there's a tendency for me, anytime somebody points something out, tend to justify a little bit. Okay, well, I do things that way because of X, Y or Z. And almost like a natural. And I think all human beings are naturally defensive when they're criticized or when they're given feedback. But, man, I do think the church is healthiest when older people feel not just comfortable, but feel a duty to do exactly what Titus 2 talks about, which is teach younger, younger men and younger women how to live according to God's word, how to structure their family, like all those things, but also where young people are comfortable enough and willing enough to receive that. And I think social media has severely negatively influenced this because young people are going to influencers that they don't know for their advice and for their kind of not just advice, but also affirmation.
Young people go to social media for affirmation and not for honest feedback, honest critique. And, you know, that's something that, you know, hear that term in sports, like, is this person coachable? Is this person, is this athlete coachable?
And I really do want to be coachable from a spiritual perspective. Again, I don't think I'm horrible at this, but I do wish I was better and not like, my defense walls wouldn't automatically go up if I received any sort of, hey, here's just a quick thought on this. I would consider, you know, I Don't even know the best example. I really try, like from when my parents bring up stuff like that to just not again immediately self justifying. Like, well, I do that because of X, Y or Z and to just take it. Well, I think biblically speaking, once again, if older people were felt more of a duty to do to pass that on to the younger generation and in turn the younger generation, like myself was more open and willing to receive it, I think the church would be a lot better off. So that this is.
Yeah, this is my second one.
[00:43:54] Speaker C: Definitely understand this one. What the question I'd have.
What if they're right?
What if truly they got you? What if they got you dead to rights? And what if there is no justification? Like what's. So what's the aversion to just saying, okay, you're right, this is the case.
Like, what, what would that mean or say about you if what they're saying is, is accurate without any justification?
[00:44:18] Speaker B: Well, I think, yeah, no, I think if I push, if some, if I push back on that, then I think that shows a lack of self awareness in myself.
I think for the most part, if it's something that you're like, yeah, I see that in myself. I'll give you an example. I just had my annual evaluation in my role at Chick Fil A and one of the things that my operator did, and I really appreciated him doing it, is he reached out to all my direct reports and was basically like, you know, hey, what do you love about Will? What do you. Something that you wish we'll do a little bit better job of? And everything was anonymous. But the common answer, there was a common answer that was essentially when things don't go the way that I want them to go, or that when things don't. Don't go exactly right, I can tend to wear my frustration on my face and you know, maybe not go about things that the best way from a leadership standpoint. And they all said that. And when I read that is like, yeah, that that's accurate. Like, I totally, I totally understand. I totally get that. That's a work example. That's a smaller example. Obviously I'm talking more so in this.
Some of the bigger things we just got done with a parenting episode, like, you know, disciplining kids and older people feeling comfortable there. And so my answer to that, Joe, would be like, if I tend to think I'm fairly self aware that if it's like, oh yeah, you're exactly right on that, that I usually will acknowledge it, it's More so the ones where it's like, I could see where they're coming from, but I could also see my reason for defending it, that, you know, I just need to do a better job of receiving that, if that makes sense. I'm not. I don't know if y' all struggle with anything, with anything similar to this, but.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, nobody likes being told, you know, that something they're doing is not great. And because it can sometimes the. The criticism can be personal, but even when it's not, it can feel personal. It can feel like an attack on. On who you are.
And I think that's exactly what James Wan was talking about. The quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger is, you know, take some time, hear it first.
Don't. Don't just respond immediately, because that's the easiest thing to do. Well, what about this? Or. Well, you that, or here's why I'm not going to listen to you.
And then slow to anger. That's the hardest one. You know, it's like just instantly the defensiveness, the guard goes up, but that is real maturity, is when you get to the point I say that I'm still working on it. It's a long work in progress of not instantly getting defensive because you are on defense. I mean, but being receptive and not defensive is very powerful for yourself. But it also, you know, for the other person gives them a. Not that they're gonna. They're. That you're letting them walk all over you, but it makes them more comfortable with you. When they realize, I can say something to you and he's gonna take it well, he's gonna take it well. He's not gonna blow up on me. Because when you do that and you do it once and you just make a suggestion to somebody and they lose their minds, you're not gonna do that again. You're not gonna be any closer with that person. And so the approachability, it. Man, it's hard. I certainly relate to that one as
[00:47:10] Speaker B: well, because there's a con. Last thing I'll say, because we gotta roll. But there's a confident confidence plays into this as well. Like, I would consider myself a fairly confident person. And so the decisions I make or the way I do things, I'm usually pretty confident in. I'm not wavering or like, I don't really know. And so it's important because then I think, Joe, we talked about this in our podcast. I think guys should be confident. I think, you know, that should be a trait of a Godly young man is confidence. But you can't allow that confidence to be a barrier to receiving this type of, you know, feedback and constructive criticism. So.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
Joe, I think you're next.
[00:47:45] Speaker C: Am I next? Okay.
[00:47:46] Speaker A: Well, let's see.
So if we are.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm good, too. Mine will be short. Mine will be short.
[00:47:54] Speaker A: Okay. I don't have another one. I. I'm just gonna wrap right there so I don't drag us on too long. So you go ahead and throw if you got. I'll throw this.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: This one is probably the least interesting one, so I saved it for last. But I was preaching on second Timothy two last night. I'm sorry, second Timothy one and verse seven is pretty.
Pretty commonly known. That's the main portion, but I was building it, building the context out. And second Timothy 1, verse 3, as Paul's kind of opening his final letter to Timothy, he says, I thank God whom I serve with a pure conscience, as my forefathers did, is without ceasing. I remember you in my prayers night and day, greatly desiring to see you, being mindful of your tears that I may be filled with joy. And I spent a little time on that while I was teaching.
I wish I was better at praying specifically for people.
I wish I was better at, like. Like Paul here talking about Timothy. I mention you in my prayers night and day. And Timothy's not the only one that Paul, you know, shares with his listeners or recipients of the letter that he prays specifically for. I wish I was better at that.
Sometimes I can have the tendency to pray generically, you know, as far as, you know, be with. I don't know the best way to describe it, but I wish I was better at keeping a list and not just of people who are sick or just got, you know, have cancer, just got a surgery, but like, man praying for Jack and the twins that he's got coming and. Or Jack and Allison and the big family change that they're. That they're going through, praying for, praying for Joe and Alyssa on their vacation, like, stuff like that, that I'm just not, in my personal prayer, quite as good at as I want to be of specifically remembering not just people, but their specific needs of the moment. I think that is a very cool thing to see with Paul specifically, is that man, he was praying by name for people. And so, again, not the most interesting topic of discussion, I suppose, but I do wish I was better at this as a. As a Christian.
[00:49:44] Speaker C: It's powerful, you know, it's powerful and you're exactly right. I mean, I have a list with prayer requests and things like that, but just you get the sense it's not just praying for Timothy's, you know, like you said, for Timothy's heart. And we know he's got some issues type of thing.
Sure. I'm sure he's lifting at Timothy up for that reason, too. But it's just Timothy's faith, you know, helping him to be strong, not to be timid. Right. You can tell that he is. He is praying these things that he might have that spirit of, you know, boldness and such.
And just thinking about him from his standpoint of, hey, Timothy's got a church to run and he really needs to be at his very best and needs God to flow through him. I'm gonna pray for that. Well, that he's not on the sick list. He's not, you know, as you said, traveling or any of those things. Like, he just needs prayers and seeing that. And it goes to your point earlier, Will, of seeing a good deed, seeing people who are in need. And that kind of wraps in with the cynicism. Right. Is sometimes we can almost feel against people and not for people. And I think it's important to be on people's side, to be the encourager. That was gonna be my. My third one is I wanna work on encouraging people, being a legitimate encourager, because I just am not great at that. I'll check in with people from time to time. I'm not good at keeping up with people. I'm not good with encouraging people. But it's this concept. It's the same thing of am I thinking about people? The relational. If there's any one kind of thread, in my opinion, throughout this entire podcast, it is be more relational. We talk about it all the time. Jack, you wrote a book on it. In Church Reset, we talk about the relationship element that is so important to the church, and yet it's really, really difficult to get right. And you can get into church trauma and you can get into all sorts of reasons why sometimes that can be difficult or even family growing up and why we think in a certain way. At the end of the day, are we praying for people? Are we encouraging people? Are we thinking about people in a positive light, giving them the benefit of the doubt, assuming that they are hoping for the best, hoping for unity, things like that, and just allowing for that to be the way that we view people in general?
I really want to work on that.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: This is really good. It's interesting how many of these come back to People mindedness, you know, of just getting outside of ourselves, focused on other people, building relationships, praying for them, evangelizing them, encouraging them, all of those things like.
And as I said at the start, that becomes more and more of a struggle all the time, you know, just being human and getting back to the kinds of things that the ways of life that are being lost and being intentional about it. As a Christian especially, I think all of these, not that they've all been under that heading, but it's a pretty consistent theme through all of it. And so these are both very good suggestions. And yeah, just not being the guy who says I'll pray for you and then doesn't, I mean really writing it down, following it up though, that goes a long way. And you know, encouraging, encouraging takes noticing people. And that goes back to what you were saying earlier about like having that wherewithal within yourself that you're not so self focused that you can look up and see other people, you know, and so good stuff. I don't have anything else to add. We are going to do a brief think fast on the controversy. It's about a week old now about the couple that aborted their down syndrome child and then went to YouTube to tell everybody about it. Jesse Ridgeway is his name, is the famous YouTuber's name.
And it set off a chain reaction of people reacting to it and then people reacting to the reaction and all of that.
You guys did a godly young men podcast kind of framed around it. But we're gonna do a brief think fast here on the issue itself. So there's a few different ways to go with it. I've got a couple of takes, but what do you guys have to say regarding this whole controversy?
[00:53:23] Speaker B: The first thing I'll say is it's refreshing to see that they're getting as much backlash as they are. And I don't think it's just my X algorithm that is curated for the, you know, certain people that are going to have a problem with it.
He came out and said we're getting death threats about this basically. And I obviously don't condone death threats. I also have no problem with people reaching out and saying what on earth is wrong with you guys? There should be even beyond shame. Like there should be a certain level of public, I can't think of the word worse than shame, but like this is a huge, huge deal. And the fact that this YouTuber who to be fair, I'd never heard of the guy, so I don't think he's that famous but he certainly had a following, I think 88,000 subscribers on YouTube, which is certainly not small.
And I just think it's so interesting that he and his wife kind of had made a living out of just documenting their life and sharing their life, and it just did not occur to them that people would have a problem with this. Like, oh, let's just share this. Just like we shared our recent travel thing. Like, and the fact that they were just so taken aback that people would. Would have a problem with it.
I thought was. Was telling about just kind of the. Their, I guess, morals and their lack of perspective. Obviously. I think it's just absolutely horrendous what they. Not just that they terminated their pregnancy, but that they turned it into a spectacle almost of a. Here's a.
Yeah, here's our announcement. And, yeah, I think they should be shamed. I think it's horrendous. I mean, there's. There's stuff coming out about how when they first announced it and in previous, you know, discussions about it, they called it a child. Like, they called it a baby, and yet they still aborted it.
I saw something, and I don't have the full details, but about how this YouTuber went to great lengths to save his. His pet. I think it was his dog or something like that, spent a lot of money, did a surgery or something like that to save his dog to live a few more months longer, and yet, oh, baby has down syndrome. Let's terminate it. And so, yeah, I'm not saying anything that nobody has. Hasn't already said, but I. I'm glad to see that they're getting as much backlash as they're getting. And I hope his platform goes away. Personally, like, I'm not somebody who wishes ill will on people, but if you're gonna, first of all terminate the life of a human being, but also just do. Because you didn't want your life to be inconvenienced, you didn't want to have a child with special needs inhibiting your fun or your enjoyment of life is as despicable as it gets. So, again, no new territory there. But that's kind of what I wanted to share.
[00:56:01] Speaker C: Yeah. Public shaming is what I had in mind.
I think there needs to be a level of the next time somebody thinks of doing this, they go, whoa, that. That didn't go over super well.
[00:56:11] Speaker B: Look what happened.
[00:56:11] Speaker C: You want to see that? You know, we're policing each other is what it is of, like, no, no, no, we don't do this in this society. That is that is awful. We're not celebrating that. That is terrible. And there's a time in the. Within the last decade where that probably would have been a lot more celebrated online because there wouldn't have been as much backlash. Things like X Twitter was. Before Elon bought it, Twitter was just another one of those leftist, you know, think tanks type of thing, where it's just all you got in your algorithm was nothing but love and things like that. I'm really glad there's a space where they're getting pushed back. And I don't think it's just on X, but obviously you see it a lot there.
I'm glad there's backlash just from the.
I don't want somebody else to think that this is, you know, for clicks, that this is what's going to help you get noticed type thing. Unfortunately, it has helped me get noticed, but to the negative. And I hope that that is a deterrent for the next guy who thinks of doing something like this, because it's just awful. It's barbaric.
[00:57:01] Speaker A: Well, that's the problem is it won't be a deterrent. Here we are talking about it, and we, among many, many others who have talked about it, and so they got attention. Attention is the currency. And that's the sad thing.
And that you're gonna publicize killing your own child. And there's the whole down syndrome discussion as the other side of this of, like, you know, people coming along. Well, it's just such a hard life, you know, and for the parents, it's so much sacrifice. Okay, that's. So you kill them. Like, I mean, come on. And the joy that these folks bring into the world. And yes, it's a challenge. Okay? Nobody guaranteed you a life free of challenge. You know, like, that's. That's okay. And. And you owe it to that other person who you are bringing into the world. And so there's that side of it. But as far as the.
The outrage, I. It's weird. It's like there's, you know, the Truman show movie, and then we do it to ourselves. Like, that's. It's. That's almost like a psychological horror movie of the idea of living with cameras on you all the time. And then we just go and do it willingly and just broadcast every thought we've ever had and everything that we do and the horrible decisions and all this. And it's like, how about shut up for once? How about just be quiet and go away and a. Don't do this. I mean, it should be a Crime, obviously, but B, going online. And I'm not going to say they were bragging about it, but running it out there for content, that is despicable.
[00:58:19] Speaker B: Yeah. The other thing I was going to say is, isn't it so interesting how the advocates for abortion will always say, well, what about if the mother's life needs to be saved? Or what about rape and incest? The fraction of a percentage where that's the case. It's like no abortions take place because people don't want their lives to be inconvenienced. And this very public example is just a check in that box. Like, it was not to save the mother's life. It was not because of some horrific circumstance. It was they didn't want a kid with down syndrome. They didn't want to be inconvenienced. They wanted their life the way they wanted it. And like, again, I just grow so tired of those being the rebuttals. It's like again, the.0001% of the, of the rape and incest that are horrible situations that I'm not, not trivializing at all.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: But.
[00:59:01] Speaker B: Or again, the what about abortion to save the mother's lives? Like, okay, well that wasn't the case here and it's not the case in most instances. And so yeah, it's, it's, it's just very frustrating when that's the, the rebuttal that's brought up. It's like that's not why people get abortions.
[00:59:14] Speaker C: And I think there's a broad theme here of living basically seeking your own comfort at the expense of the youth, at the expense of the young. And I think we have a duty to those that come after us, obviously those in the womb and those outside the womb. I think we have a duty to be thinking about that next future generation. Our job is not live so comfortable right now that we are just leaving them with nothing. And in this situation, terminating the pregnancy, killing the kid because we don't want to be inconvenienced. We need to be thinking about that just from a generational standpoint and from a societal, I guess is what I'm saying, from a societal standpoint of hey, let's make sure we're caring for the youth, let's make sure we are helping them have better lives. And maybe we sacrifice now, maybe we are more inconvenienced, but it's for the sake of our kids and grandkids and things like that. And that's for our generation as we grow up and millennials and Such. I mean, we're just. I know we dunk on boomers a lot, but you know what? This has happened with millennials too, where we think about the next generation. Are we thinking about the youth? Are we thinking about our own convenience and everything else and selling everybody else down the river, or are we actually thinking long term? And I think this goes into that discussion quite a bit as well.
[01:00:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of different ways to go with it. As I said, godly young man. You guys did an episode on abortion with, with this kind of being the theme. And so if you guys want more on that, go check it out over there. We appreciate you guys tuning in for this Think Fast and for the larger Think Deeper episode, we're out here every Mondays here on FocusPress. You can check us out. FocusPress.org Will you have some.
[01:00:46] Speaker B: Yeah, with the main episode being about kind of ways that we feel like we can grow for listeners. Tell us the ways you think we can grow. I'm just kidding.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: Constructive criticism. That's right.
[01:00:56] Speaker B: Yeah. No, but I mean, obviously self reflection being the goal for as far as comments go, it'd be interesting to hear what other people within their Christian walk kind of struggle with and wish they were better at.
[01:01:06] Speaker A: Yeah. The other thing is FocusPress, we can always use your help.
We would love to pick up more congregations as sponsors, but individuals as well. We appreciate all the donations and sponsorships we get.
We. We certainly could use the help. It's. It's a lot of work. We got a lot of books coming out. We got a lot of projects going on. Some bigger ones I'm working on hopefully announcing soon. And so, yeah, there's, there's a lot of production going on here at FocusPress, but we do need your help to make that happen. So focuspress.org donate and that's all I've got for today. So we're gonna leave it right there and we'll talk to you guys on the next one.
Hey, guys, Jack Wilke here. If you enjoy our work with podcasts like Think Deeper and Godly Young Men and our books, articles, seminars, and want to support the work that we do, the best way to do so is to go to focuspress.org donate that's focuspress. Org donate. Thanks again for listening.
