[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome back to think deeper podcast. Jack Wilkee with you, with Joe Wilkie and will Harab. This week we're talking some marriage lessons. We'll get to that in just a minute. I'll have will set up the episode. We just want to remind you of our focus press seminars and meetings that we do. We'd love to come and speak to your congress. Irrigation. We are located in the middle Tennessee area, so we can get to areas around here within a few hours.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Drive very easily.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: But we've traveled as far out as California, Florida, wherever we're invited. And so of course we do think deep.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Name two tropical sunny places. Well, that's California and Florida.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Been anywhere really cold out of Buffalo.
All the deep thinkers up in Idaho. Yeah.
So anyway, we do the think deeper one. That's the three of us. They have a gym, godly young men, one that the two of them just did their first one successfully. But obviously bringing out two or three speakers sometimes is not something churches are looking to do. We all have individual things in our individual areas of expertise. If you've listened for any time at all, you're kind of familiar what we all drift towards. And so I'm not going to give everybody's emails.
[email protected] if you want to reach one of them, you can reach out to me and I'll pass it on to them just so you don't have a bunch of names and ATs and comms to remember. But
[email protected] reach out and whether it's for me or for one of these guys or even for Brad, and we'll see if we can get you set up and hopefully come and encourage your congregation. We really try and stay in contact, build up the people that we speak to and leave you with some actionable stuff. And so that's our hope. So if you'd like to schedule any of us, that's how you do it will get us into this week's episode.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so this week we are talking about, we're each bringing three lessons that marriage has taught us to just kind of have a big roundtable discussion about marriage, marriage in general, marriage from a christian perspective. And this was actually an episode that was my idea originally. We did an episode 23 months ago, April 11, 2022. One of our early episodes called Marriage Myths that hurt us. And I remember back when we were having this discussion about, hey, doing an episode on marriage, we all kind of talked about the fact that we don't want to come across like we are experts. We know that there are far more people, or there are people far more qualified, I should say, to talk about marriage than us three young guys. And so we really kind of structured that episode around. Here's what we've been told about marriage, and here's where we have found that those things are myths. We covered things like happy wife, happy life, just a lot of those kind of things. And we tried to, again, structure it in a way that avoided kind of giving advice and giving any kind of feedback on the way we view marriage. Because, again, we're young and our marriages have not lasted that long. However, we are now two years past that. I don't know. I just hit my five year anniversary. Joe, I think you're around seven years. And Jack, I know y'all got married the same year that Joe and Alyssa did. So call it seven, eight years somewhere in that range. And so we are going at least what I've got for this episode, we have not told each other what three lessons we're bringing. We wanted to kind of react live on air to what the other two brought. But I did want to say, as we start this episode, we see a lot of broken marriages in the church. We see a lot of unhealthy marriages in the church. And I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that you got to have been married for 20 years before you can give any advice on marriage. There's a lot of people that have been married for 20 years that I'm not going to listen to their advice on marriage because they look unhealthy or unhappy. Rather, their marriage looks unhealthy, their kids aren't faithful. Like, sorry, I'm not going to listen to that. And so maybe I'm in the minority here as far as these three guys, but personally, I think you learn a lot about marriage in the first five years. In the first seven years, all three of us have kids. None of the things that I'm going to bring up today really have much to do with kids because I wanted to focus mainly on marriage. But I guess my point is to start this episode, there are a lot of younger Christians who are looking around at older Christians in their marriages and saying, shouldn't there be more here? That's the question Jack asked in his church reset book about the church. And I think it's the same thing with marriage. Like, shouldn't this be more. Shouldn't it be more than just kind of showing up together to worship, know, kind of not really looking all that happy in your marriage? And so that was to me. What kind of really brought this idea into my head about recording an episode on this is because there's a lot of young Christians, a lot of young marriages that are really happy, really looking around saying how can we continue to grow and continue to get better? And a lot of the marriage advice in the church from older Christians is just not that great. And so I think it's time that we do start looking around at younger Christians who do have great marriages and look to them. And so, guys, that's kind of my spiel to start the episode. I don't know what your thoughts are on that. Before we get into again, we got nine lessons.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Three.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Three. So we don't necessarily have to spend a ton of time on the intro, but any thoughts you all have to add to kind of that introduction for this?
[00:05:13] Speaker C: We are going to push for comments quite a bit. We'll do another push at the end. We want to know your thoughts on this. We want you guys to participate in the discussion. Of course, the lessons you've learned, exactly the deep thinkers on Patreon, but if not, of course, on YouTube, on Facebook, on Twitter, wherever you're finding us, let us know. We want to know the lessons you've learned. And we do want to learn from the older. Sometimes those lessons may be, hey, don't do it this way. This is something we did wrong, or if there's something you really felt you did right, but that's what's. Yeah, we're, we're excited about this episode because I just think, yes, we're young, but at the same time, we're excited about this. And we think that marriage is one of the best things God's ever given to us. We want to treat it as such. We want to make sure that we have happy marriages. So I think, who wants to start on this one? We're going to jump into the three again. We have not shared these with each other, so this is, we're reacting live on air here, but we may have some crossovers. So I was going to say I'm going to let will jump in on this one first and give us your first one, Will.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: All right, so the first thing I've got three lessons that marriage has taught me. Number one that I've got is one of the unhealthiest things you can do is under communicate. One of the unhealthiest things you can do is under communicate. This is something that I see again, this is not going to be where I'm just trying to bash a lot of older people for the whole time. But I do hear stories, and I've seen examples of older marriages who, they don't really talk through things. They just kind of agree to kind of go about things in each their own way. And what marriage has taught me in the five years that I've been married is listen. Over communicating is far better than undercommunicating. Talk about everything. Talk about if your spouse does something that really bothers you, talk about it instantly. Don't let the bitterness build.
Over communicate about your day. Over communicate about your hopes, your dreams. Talk about everything. Because what that does, it bonds you closer together. It brings you closer together as a couple. You feel more on the same page versus those who don't really communicate throughout the day. Maybe they get home and they have a quick catch up session over dinner or something, and then they keep going about doing their own thing. The communication lines, the communication channels, I should say, are not open. And so what does that lead to? It leads to looking other places for outlets of communication. It goes for the women. Maybe they're looking to communicate with women's Facebook groups that we've talked about before, and that's who they want to talk to about their problems. For men, heaven forbid, maybe it's somebody at the office, or maybe it's their guy friends in a harmless way. But regardless, I think one of the unhealthiest things you can do within your marriage is under communicate. Under communicate about finances, under communicate about disciplining the kids, under communicate about fill in the blank. I think a marriage where the communication channels are open and used frequently typically are some of the healthier marriages. So I've got more I could say on that, but, guys, any thoughts on that?
[00:08:13] Speaker C: Jack, you want to jump in there? I got a lot of thoughts on there, but I might step into some.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Of mine that I thought you would have thoughts on that. No, I think it sounds so simple, but it takes practice. It really is something that you have to keep on the forefront of your mind of like, no, I should talk about this. I need to let her know how I'm feeling, and I want to know how she's feeling and asking the questions and checking in like that. Because, man, if you don't, it builds up in a hurry. It's just like any chore that maybe you don't want to do that. You put it off, you put it off, you put it off. Whether it's laundry or the dishes or whatever else, it's this huge pile. Well, the same thing with things. You need to communicate about things you're thinking things that maybe they've got, thinking where it just starts doing it's doing. And, yeah, you just end up in a really bad place where it's all bottled up and maybe you blow up or whatever happens, it's not good. And so you're right.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: It has to be practiced, even about big decisions. Talk through the pros and cons with each.
[00:09:10] Speaker C: Through.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Just talk through everything. I guess that's the easiest way I can sum it up. Joe, what are your thoughts?
[00:09:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I got a lot of.
You know when you have a best friend that you move away and it's been a while, and what ends up happening? We don't talk. We don't talk. We don't talk. Then when we do talk, you're talking four hour conversation.
But how likely are you to continue to have four hour? And the funny thing is, if you communicate more, same thing with anybody on the phone. I could call up Jack, especially when you were living in Texas. Ten minute conversation. I'm heading to the office ten minutes away. Right. And so I'll get on the phone for ten minutes, and it's not like I have a ton of catching up to do, because I talked to him two days ago. Well, this is what happens in marriage, is the more you guys are talking day after day, the less you have to have these huge conversations. But you mentioned something. I always use this in my sessions with clients. Like, you build up bitterness or resentment, frustrations, things like that. Well, we don't talk. We don't talk. We don't talk. We don't talk. And then it takes very little to set you off, and you're spilling over, and it comes out of the water bottle, you go, well, boy, I don't know why this set me off. It's like you had no more room. You're not processing through these things with one another, so the more you're talking about it, the better it is. And I like how you said, hope, streams, goals, things like that. I talk a lot about logistical marriages. I think a lot of people have logistical marriages. Pick up the kid from soccer practice. Did you pick this up at the store? And what time?
[00:10:29] Speaker B: What do we have for dinner?
[00:10:30] Speaker C: Yeah, when you go to the dentist. What time's that appointment again? What are we having for dinner? Those are all logistics. Got to communicate about those things, too. But communication is a time where you should be drawing closer together. Those things don't draw you closer together as much as. Yeah, they streamline things, but we want a lot of communication about the fun things in life about the goals, the hopes, the dreams, the sadnesses, the struggles.
John Gottman, I'll just throw this out there. John Gottman is a great. John and Julie are great resources in this area. I've mentioned it before, seven principles for making marriage work. They have what they call love maps in there, and it's all about what you're talking about, Will, which is, how well do you communicate? Do you know your wife's best friend? Do you know her biggest struggle right now? Do you know the biggest stress that she has on her? Do you know her hopes or her best dreams? Those are the things that you want to talk about.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Well, real quick, and then I'll let somebody else give their first lesson. Communicate about spiritual things. Driving home from church, what did you think of class tonight? What were your thoughts on the Bible class? Or what did you study this morning in your morning Bible study? Like, if you don't talk about these things specifically with you as the husband, how much are you spiritually leading her? If it's just bring her to church again, maybe you're not talking about the sermon, you're not talking about the Bible class, you're not studying together, you're not talking about what each other is studying. You're probably not doing a great job of spiritual leading. And so you have to communicate about those things constantly, otherwise you're not going to have a good handle on. How is your wife's faith, Joe? I'm glad you brought that up. How is your wife's relationship with God? And obviously that is between her and God, but you do have a responsibility as husband to lead her in that way. And so if you're never communicating about those things, and to your point, Joe, it's always about logistical things. Good luck leading her.
[00:12:09] Speaker C: This real. Let me say this real fast, because I don't think I have this, Jack. Maybe you have this one. We need to get away from the. Well, I'm a guy, I just don't talk very much.
Stop. Okay, stop. Well, that's just what guys do. There's plenty of guys that are articulate. There are plenty of guys that actually communicate very well with their wives. And how's that working out for you? Well, I don't have much to say as they cross their arms and say nothing. Yes, you do. Just because you don't say it doesn't mean you don't have a lot to say. And your wife is dying to know you and your thoughts and what you think. And if you take the nonchalant, I just don't care. Go for it, honey. Do whatever.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: It's like the guy in high school that's like too cool for school.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: That's basically, it drives me nuts. You're not leading your wife. So for all the guys out there, I realize we're not chatty Cathy's. Okay. I'm not asking you to go out there and speak the same way women do. You have to communicate enough for your wife to know who you are, what you're about, where we're going, all of those things. So if you kind of take, know I'm above it all approach, please don't. Please. As the guys get better at communication, talk a lot more with your way. It's way better to over communicate than to under communicate. So. Great point, Jack. You want to leave us in a second or into your first?
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's similar to this, but I'm going to go a little bit of a different direction. Best way I know how to put it was streamline your conflict. And you're talking about not letting things fester and communicating and all that. That's really hard, first off, at the start of your marriage, to have conflict, to say, look, I've got a problem with how you're doing this, or, please, this is really bothering me, or whatever else. And something that somebody taught us and we put to use for a while was a schedule. And at first we did it twice a week, Monday and Thursday. Once the kids are in bed, we're going to sit down and if you have a problem, if there's something that's bothering you, frustrating you, whatever, that's your chance to discuss it. And we don't do that anymore because it kind of taught us the process of conflict. It taught us, hey, we can trust each other, that we're not going to yell at each other. This is not like we're really angry and coming on a fever pitch. It's okay. I've got some things I'd like to get sorted out. The other thing is it gives you a chance to think through. How do I want to say this? How do I want to bring it up? Is it even worth bringing up? And so then Monday comes around and you sit down and, you know, you've kind of got your head in the right space to hear criticism, to hear an issue or a complaint against you or whatever it may be. And then you sit how to do it. And like I said, we don't do that anymore. But we had to for a while because it was like I'd have a problem with her she'd have a problem with me and it would just, as you said, boil over. The bitterness would build. If you're not good at conflict from day one, if you're not good at naming, hey, this is an elephant in the room. We're struggling with it.
It's essentially training wheels. And so I said, streamline your conflict is the best way I know how to do it. Use the training wheels until you get good enough to handle it on the fly. Now we don't have Monday night or Thursday night. It's pretty quickly. We can quash a hey, what's going on here? Is there an issue? Do you have a problem with me or hey, please, I'm really not liking that you're doing this or why did you say it that way? Or whatever it may be. We can do it in the moment. We don't have to wait, or we can just express ourselves better. She can say, I need to think about it a little bit. I'm not stewing on her or anything. I just want to know how I'm thinking about how I'm feeling about this and how I need to phrase it. And so let's talk in just a little bit and give her a little bit of space and she'll come back and we'll have our conversation. But it took the training wheels version of that to get there. Does that make sense?
[00:15:40] Speaker B: That's very interesting because you think about none of the three of us dated, but you think about modern dating culture and you think about your relationship with your significant other before you get married. It's a lot of sunshine and rainbows. It's a lot of going out and having fun together. There's not a lot of real conflict. And I know some people have big fights or whatever before they get married. But for the most part, I would say stereotypically and generically speaking, you don't have a ton of conflict before you get married because hopefully as a Christian you're not living know again. You're kind of putting your best face forward. And so there is potential, to Jack's point, when you get into marriage and all of a sudden you've got some kind of conflict that you don't know how to handle it because you haven't had anything happen before. I mean, what are couples worst fights about before they get married? Before they get married, I don't know. But to that point, you start living with somebody, you start really going through day to day life with somebody. It's not all about going to play putt putt and what movie are you going to go see? It's now about we've got bills to pay. It's now about we've got to make sure this gets done. We are now again working through real life responsibilities. Yeah, that conflict is going to maybe come up more naturally than it did before you got married. And to that point, if you don't know how to handle that, you are going to be looking around going, oh, man, what do I do? This is the first time I've been in this situation. So that's interesting, Jack. I had not thought of that before.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: How many times do you see couples, you say, kind of in the dating, engaged honeymoon phase where you're totally able to avoid the conflicts, the things that annoy you, you either look past them because you kind of got the stars in your eyes, or it's not that big of a deal. Let's get married and things will work themselves out. And so you have started yourself on the wrong foot of handling conflict. And so now you really need the training wheels kind of thing because you have been avoidant the whole time. Well, like you say, now you're in the same house. You can't avoid conflict forever. They're not going to go home at the end of the day, and you are home. You're here together. And I think one thing I would add to what I said is if both people come to it with the right attitude, you're going to realize this is not a person who's like, all right, Monday night, boy, I got a lot of problems with you people, and now you're going to hear about it. You're not doing that. Man, this is really wearing on me. And you love that person. You think, okay, well, that has been wearing on them. I need to take that into consideration rather than what it usually devolves into. Well, you did this. Well, you did like, nobody likes that. That doesn't solve anything. And so if you both come going, all right, I'm going to listen to you and hear you out, and you're going to listen to me and hear me out. And if you both come with that humility, things change a lot quicker. And like I said, this is not a thing you should have to do forever, but it's pretty handy to get you on the right path.
[00:18:17] Speaker C: Joe, the goal of I really want a good marriage has to be, like, front and center on their minds at all times.
We're bringing this conflict up because we want to work through it and to have a better marriage. And if both people realize that what you get on a lot of times is you're just trying to hurt me. You're just trying to get me upset or you just don't care about me or all these phrases. No, I genuinely just want a really good marriage. And I feel like this is standing in the way of that, this conflict between us. We want to work through this. And so if you can stay kind of front and center in the mind, a couple of things that I would say for this. First off, if the decibel level gets too loud and you're arguing, take a break. Five minute break. Calm down. Because once we know people's brain shut off. We've talked about that before. People's brain shut off, their ears shut off. When it gets to a certain loud point in arguing, try not to do that. It's not that yelling is always bad. Like, you're a horrible marriage. If you didn't know. Not necessarily, but it doesn't accomplish anything. The second thing is, I like how you mentioned the training wheels. I've talked before about the 15 minutes rule. There's one of those that I thought about putting on this one for one of my three, but not 15 minutes. If it's still bothering you after 15 minutes, we want to get to the point where we're bringing it up. Well, when you start, it's not going to be that way. I've been thinking about it and I slept on it, and 24 hours later, what she said really hurt. What he did is not okay. And I'm still pretty upset about it. Bring that up. Have those nights, Monday, Thursday, whatever it is, have those nights where you can kind of bring this up to somebody. That way you're not making mountains out of mole hills per se, but it does have to stick in your mind. But if it does, then, you know, there's an outlet for like, hey, this is what it is. And we got to start seeing conflict as not the end of their relationship, but as the start of something much.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Better will, last thing I'll say. And then, Joe, you take it away on your first lesson. I love what you said there about you have to make sure that your number one goal in conflict is to work through the conflict. I think what a lot of couples can get into, and maybe even especially younger ones, is their number one goal is to make sure that the other one knows that they are right. To basically have the high ground over the other one. Like, well, you wronged me and so I need you to. At some point you got to work past that. It's not about who's got the high ground and who owes who anything. It's about how are we going to work through this? And I think maybe specifically for guys, but I think it's also a girl problem as well, of like, well, he did this and until he does XYZ, says XYz things, then I've got the high ground type of thing. You're never going to work through anything if that's your mindset. I think that's what a lot of people have. They have that in friendships, they have that in marriage relationships as well.
If at the four front of your mind is not how are we going to work through this and make our marriage better because of it, you're never going to achieve the goals you want to achieve. So avoid the high ground mentality is what I would say, in addition to that. But Joe, what's your first lesson?
[00:21:00] Speaker C: Yeah, first one is self esteem is pivotal. And it goes along with this, because what you see a lot in marriage is the you complete me. And they don't say that, oh, we know that's cheesy. That's essentially how people act. And this is what you find is when somebody does bring up a conflict, because this dovetails with your point, Jack. When somebody does bring up a conflict, it's the end of the world. You don't think I'm good enough. Am I not enough in this marriage? You don't think that I'm a good wife. You don't think that I'm a good husband. Pump the brakes. Somebody ought to be able to say something against you. Somebody ought to be able to say, this is frustrating me, and for you to go, okay, duly noted. Let's talk about it. I may disagree with you, but we're going to come from a place of contentment, a peace of I know who I am, and who I am is not perfection. Who I am is somebody who does have struggles. And I'm human and I do make mistakes. And you know what? I'm really glad that they brought that out, but that comes from a place of having good self esteem and knowing who you are in Christ. I think a lot of marriages are looking for the other person to complete them and for the other person to kind of be their self esteem for them. I need my husband to compliment me a bunch, to tell me that I'm good enough, to let me know that I'm a really good wife, to let me know that I'm a good mom.
That's really nice. And that's something that a husband ought to do is to really build up his wife. And I'm all for the compliments. That's fantastic. But if the only reason you think you're a good mom is because your husband tells you such or because you go out on Facebook and all the women tell you such, that's poor self esteem. You should not need the validation of everybody else, because the moment your husband says, yeah, but I don't like this about your parenting. I think you need to be harder on this kid, or whatever it is, it all goes up in flames, because your self esteem is such that you're only finding your self esteem in others, not in God, and not in yourself. And so that would be, in my opinion, one of the first things for marriage is you have to come to the marriage knowing who you are, and, yes, knowing your limitations as well, and knowing, I'm not going to be perfect here, but I'm going to strive. Like, who I am is not the perfect husband. Who I am is somebody who's really striving to be the perfect husband. So when Alyssa tells me something, it's like, I have an opportunity to actually work on my identity, which is to be the best husband I can be. So conflict doesn't happen as much because it's like, thank you for telling me that. Yes, it stings sometimes. Yes. It's like, wow, I don't know that I like that. Or we might go back and forth, but ultimately, it's leading into, I have an opportunity to be a better husband because of this. And that's right up my alley. That's what my identity is, instead of, I'm the perfect husband, and now I'm not. Does that make sense?
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really good. I like that a lot, because, to your point, it helps with the conflict. It helps with knowing how to talk through things, how to discuss things, and really, for a lot of people, insecurity or I guess poor self esteem does lie at the root of a lot of conflict, a lot of issues. And if that's kind of taken off the table, it's not that you'll never have insecurities or that you'll never struggle with self esteem, but if it's at a higher foundation, if it's at a higher level, man, is your ability to work through things, and is your ability to honestly just live a better life so much more increased if you have kind of that under control? You find your worth in Cris, we've talked about before, and you find your worth in who you are as a person rather than just man. What is everybody else thinking? Me. Even what is my spouse thinking? Me. Obviously you should care about that, but it should not be the dictator of your actions or the way that you do things.
[00:24:16] Speaker C: And let me say this before Jack jumps in.
There are so many guys that can't lead in a marriage because they're afraid if I make this decision, she might leave me. She might think that I'm not.
Know what if she thinks that I'm a really bad guy?
[00:24:30] Speaker B: They base their decisions based off of.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: What other people might think instead of what's right. Instead of, look, I'm secure in who I am. I'm secure in my relationship with God. I know that this is the path we need to take. Instead of that, their self esteem is low. And so they say, I don't want to be left. I don't want to be forgotten. I don't want my wife to find happiness in somebody else. And the reality is your wife may find happiness in somebody else if you're not leading. Women do want protection. Women do want leadership. They might kick back from time to time, but they want a strong leader. And so many guys lack the self esteem to say, this is where we're going, and here's how we get there. But again, insecurities and everything else keep them from actually leading and stepping up because they don't have the self esteem on the back end. And really, as the core to say, this is who I am and I know what I'm doing. Instead, I really hope she thinks that I know what I'm doing. No, you're allowing your wife to ultimately dictate the decisions of the marriage. And she knows it as well. And this is why a lot of wives struggle with submissiveness, is because she knows at the end of the day, her emotional whims are what leads the marriage, because he doesn't have it within himself, the self esteem within himself, to stand his ground and say, this is what we're doing. So, Jack, what are your thoughts?
[00:25:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm going to hold mine, actually, because I've got something that is going to spin off of that a little bit for another one here. In a bit. That was a sub point under one of mine. I have one that has sub points. So I'm trying not to get in.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Look at this level ahead and get into your number two. Or do you want to save that one?
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. I'm not trying to cheat by adding sub points like, oh, I'm going to have five instead of three.
[00:25:56] Speaker C: Yeah, this guy.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: It is as the man you're the tone setter. That was a lesson that took a while to learn, is there's the equality that we've talked about before, that you are equal before God and all that. But as far as the leader of the home and just the natural male female dynamic and all that, you're the tone setter. You're the culture setter for the house and this realization, nobody's coming for you. You're waiting for something for your wife that she can't give you, your parents can't give it to you, your friends can't give it to you. Like you're saying, this self esteem that you have, you've got to have the confidence as the tone setter to know I'm pointing this family in the right direction. I'm holding up my end of the bargain. Like, the worst days I have as a husband and as a father are the days where I'm undisciplined in my own life, whether I had a bad work day because I just didn't get as much done as I should have or I was distracted or whatever it may be. And then it's kind of like that sets the tone, and it's so weird to see how the family responds to that. And the same thing as you're saying of, you got to have a tougher skin. If I can't hear criticism of myself, if I can't hear disagreement, if I throw out an idea of I think we should do this, or I think this about how we raise the kids, whatever it may be, and there's a little bit of pushback, and I get hurt feelings over it, or it becomes into kind of a little bit of a battle where I can't hear her pushback without me.
Again, we just kind of have this back and forth over it because I don't have, as you're saying, the self esteem to withstand it, that's not good. And so there's this really tough dynamic with male headship of it's you as a human being with your desires and the way you want things to go, and her as the human being and her desires is the way you want to go, but you also need to be a neutral arbiter to the best of your ability over your own desires and hers. So where you can know, I want this, but maybe what I want isn't exactly what we need, and she can want this, but maybe what she wants isn't exactly what you need. As you said, you need to be able to tell your wife no sometimes and make the hard decision, even if she's not going to like it.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: But you need to be able to.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: Tell yourself no sometimes. And that neutrality that you have to have is really hard. And you've got to really be on top of your game to be close to pulling that off.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: It's such really a heavy responsibility that weighs on the shoulders of dads and husbands. And we're trying to make this not just a dads and husbands thing and kind of apply it to both. But to that point, Jack, what you're talking about is culture setting. Tone setting, culture setting. If your wife sets the culture in your home, your family will struggle. And that's nothing against women. It's just that God designed men to lead and to set the culture. If your kids set the culture in your home, kids will almost certainly go off the deep end. If they're the ones setting the culture in your home, you're probably not leading them correctly and nobody's going to be happy. That's exactly right. So I don't have a lot to add. I thought that was, again, just culture setting is what my mind came to of, like, if anybody else is setting the culture good to, the family's not going to run as well. Joe, any thoughts on that?
[00:28:58] Speaker C: Good thing I added more than three because that was one of my three.
Men need to set the culture. I was going to dovetail off of this one. Men do need to set the culture. I was kind of stepping on my own as I was talking, but yeah, the way weight of the family, we talked about it a lot before. Right. Adam was judged because he listened to the voice of his wife. It's not that you should never listen to your wife. It's that ultimately the buck stops with you. We've talked about a bunch. I don't want to beat a dead horse from things we've discussed previously. Guys have to step up and recognize that the role of the family will largely fall on their shoulders. I have some more thoughts on this later. I just added, so are you going.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: To use that as your second one or. No?
[00:29:33] Speaker C: Do you want me to jump in a second?
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Well, let me add a little bit onto mine of when I say the tone setter. If you are not resilient, if you're easily knocked down, your home's going to be that way. If you are kind of hanging your head all the time, if you're again snippy, if you're angry, emotionally unstable, unstable, if you're high and you're low, you see it and it's kind of funny, like seeing people post stuff on Facebook, parenting, just different groups and stuff where it comes up and it's kind of like, I know this because I see it with my own kids. They're reflecting you. This problem that you have with your kids. You're the one who like the kid is responsible to some degree, especially as they get older. But you can see where they got it. You can see where the root is. Angry kids come from angry houses, from angry parents.
It's one of the most humbling things in the world, to see your kid do something and you go, they're just imitating me.
[00:30:27] Speaker C: I know where it got it.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: I don't like that at all. But you're the tone set. And this doesn't mean you have to be perfect.
But again, if you're not the kind of person who apologizes and owns your mistakes, your wife's not going to, your kids aren't going to. I mean, you carry this incredibly heavy burden and you just got to take it on. That's what you signed up for.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: One thing I'd say on that, I don't think you have to be perfect. I do think you have to strive for perfection. I'll put it that way. That's the way that I would put it. You got to be striving for it. You know, you're not going to hit it, but you got to be striving for it.
[00:30:55] Speaker C: A woman has agency. But I'd say two things to this. There's two ways this could go if you're not kind of self ruled as we talk. One is the family does follow you. You're lazy, and the rest of the family is lazy. You're snippy and the rest of the family is snippy. And I think that happens a lot. The second thing is, the other opposite side is your wife has to take it up, has to take the mantle, because you're not leading and you're not being self ruled and you're not doing what you're supposed to. So your wife steps in to fill the leadership vacuum, basically. You're not leading spiritually. You're not setting the tone. And so your wife goes, okay, somebody has to, I'll set the tone. And then she resents you. And then it's like, why would I listen to you? And even if she does try to submit to you, because she just wants you to lead. She just wants you to step up. She's pulling for you. She's your greatest ally, and she just really wants you to be the guy you're supposed to be. And time and time and time again, you just drop the ball type of thing. You just don't really care. She gives up on you and then she gets very upset and then she reaches out to not even other guys. There's a lot of women that stay in those marriages. They're not promiscuous and least anything like that, but they find emotional well being on their Facebook groups with women or on somebody else. Guys, we have an opportunity to have our wives. Like, we can be their greatest confidant if we listen to them, if we're just there for them type of thing.
We have to set the tone again. I love that one will get us into your second.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and get us into my second one. Takes me a bit of a different direction. So my first one is one of the unhealthiest things you can do is under communicate. My second one is one of the healthiest things you can do is share a growth mindset. Share a growth mindset with your spouse.
This has been one of the greatest blessings that I've found in my wife Rachel. Is that how easy would it be to man, the goal of every single day is just to get all our stuff done so that we can sit on the couch and watch TV together. The goal of every single day is just to get through it so that we can enjoy our bowl of ICE cream every night. There's nothing wrong with that every now and then. But if you don't share a growth mindset with your spouse, ODs are, you're not going to grow. And so, again, one of the greatest blessings I've found with Rachel is we push each other to be better in just about every single area, spiritually, financially, we set goals every single month.
Exercise, diet, all these things I've bemoaned before. The fact that you see couples that get married, maybe they're trying to achieve success in a lot of ways. They get married and all of a sudden it's like their growth stops, their spiritual growth stops, their exercise, their financial, whatever, just because it's the you complete me thing or whatever it is, man, if you do it the right way, you have a built in accountability partner. If you have fitness goals that you want to hit, you hold each other accountable on not eating certain things, or, hey, how's the exercise going? Or again, the spiritual, or you set goals together, like, hey, we want to spend this much money or less on eating out. We want to save this much money. That's kind of the whole sharing your hopes, dreams and goals thing, share a growth mindset with your spouse, because if you do, first of all, that's going to be passed on to your kids. Your kids will also have the growth mindset if both of you do. And again, let's be honest, this has been scientifically proven. People who have the growth mindset will be far more successful in life and have happier lives. That's just been proven. And so if you have the growth mindset by yourself, but you don't share it with your spouse, you will be dragged down by your spouse and then vice versa. If she does, or if your spouse does and you don't, you're going to drag them down. And so one of the best things you can do. And again, where I've found some of the greatest joy. We have goals that we strive for together, individual goals that we're communicating about, but also goals that we strive to together. That doesn't happen without the growth mindset. If we just have the plateau mindset of man, this is the best shape we're ever going to be in. This is the most spiritual knowledge we're ever going to have. Let's just try to get through the day and again, resort it to let's end the night, every single night, in front of Netflix.
Your life is not going to be as successful. It's not going to be as happy. You're not going to find as much joy. And so that would be my second one, is share a growth mindset with your spouse. It's one of the greatest things you can do. Again, I enjoy a night in front of Netflix with my wife as much as anybody. But if that's your goal for every single day, you're just living for the weekend type of thing, so that you can do that, you're going to have other struggles.
We talk about striving for greatness in the Golly amen podcast. You're not going to be doing that in your marriage. And the Ods are. If you don't have the growth mindset in those things, guess what else is not going to be growing? Your marriage in general, your happiness in your marriage. You're not going to be working on those things. So, yeah, a bit of a rant there. But, guys, any thoughts on that one? That was my second one.
[00:35:33] Speaker C: Marriage can be so good. So good. And because this is the first one I had, and I'm going to blow two of mine because again, I wrote a bunch just in case for this purpose, because he started stepping on one of them, but one of the things that I had is you don't have to listen to the stereotypes. We talked about this two years ago. One of the reasons I decided maybe against using this one is all the stereotypes of the old ball and chain and just wait. After the honeymoon period or five years or seven years or ten years or whatever it is, marriage can be so good. It is the ultimate good, because the one thing that God said was not good was for man to be alone, and he fixed it through marriage. It is a beautiful thing that we have to take very, very seriously. But to your point, if we don't see it and treat it as the beautiful thing that it is, and we don't cherish it and help it grow into what it could be, then we have a tree that could grow up and blossom into a beautiful apple tree that down the line, generations can come and enjoy the fruit of this tree, right. If you don't water it, if you don't really help the tree grow at all and snip off the dead branches and try to rid of the rotten apples and everything else. If you don't do that, we go nowhere. There has to be a growth mindset. And the second one that you kind of got into that I'll use here is there has to be vision for the marriage. There has to be a goal of like, yes, we are growing. Where are we going with this thing? And if you don't have a vision to know where you're going, you're lost. You're going in circles. We're back to square 110 years in because you don't know where you're going. So the growth mindset that you're bringing up, I love this point so much. It's one of those you can grow and grow and grow and grow. There are times to just step back and go, we've come a long way. Let's appreciate this. Let's sit back on the back porch with a cup of coffee and just enjoy where we're at in life. Sometimes that's okay, too. But, man, a lot of people want to rest on their laurels and go, we're in a pretty good spot. And then it just deteriorates, deteriorates, deteriorates until we're in a bad spot again. I would say that growth mindset of, like, we know where we're going and we're just going to chip away at this thing and realize we're get it wrong sometimes. But ultimately it's going to be okay because by God's grace, this is where we're going, that is so key to a marriage. And it's because I know what marriage could be. I know it could be the greatest thing ever. And if I'm not there right now, I'm going to strive to get there. Jack, what are your thoughts?
[00:37:44] Speaker A: Yeah, just briefly. You want your spouse to have a better husband than she had on day one, on year ten in every way. And you, hopefully you want to be married. I mean, everybody wants to be married to someone who's better. When you see that stagnation, just kind of that, well, I am who I am, and this is who I'm going to be for the next 50 years of my life.
And I know it's that thing of like, oh, I married them that way and I love them that way till the day they die. Yeah, but how much more exciting is it to marry somebody who's growing with you and to will saying you have an accountability partner, where sometimes it is that stagnation or backsliding, like it just less than the person you married, maybe over deliver. I mean, it's a good principle of business, but it's a good principle of ethics. And I think this is something that's kind of rooted in the proverbs of your personal growth and all that. But you're taking the business one over deliver, like be better than the person you promised you were going to be. Everybody would appreciate that. Nobody's going to have a problem with that. And I think that's an important one to have. But, Joe, we should get to your second one here before we start running out of.
[00:38:47] Speaker C: Sure, sure. So my second one is the little things tell a much bigger story.
And this goes along with this kind of, to your point, I want to be in better shape, and currently that's not the case. I'm seven years in. This is something that we're working on. I'm probably stronger, hit the gym, but I'm not in better shape than when I was married. I want to get back to that. I want to strive for that. Will and I have talked a lot about this. He's very big on this, of why are we backsliding in marriage, the little things tell a much bigger story. The ballooning in your weight after marriage. Everybody kind of gains in the first year of marriage because of home. Know your wife's cooking may be great or you're just kind of stagnant. You got into your wedding dress as.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: A woman, a lot of TV.
[00:39:29] Speaker C: Exactly. Your lifestyle is you're figuring out life, you kind of backslide, but it's those little things that do tell a bigger story. The sex life. No. Sex is not the foundation of a great marriage. It's the pinnacle, I think, of kind of the great marriage. It's an outflowing of that. But as such, it tells a much bigger story. We never have sex, or there's a lot of sexual dysfunction in there. She doesn't want it. He wants it all the time, whatever it is. And it's like, yeah, but that's just one part of our marriage. It tells a much bigger story as to what's underneath, which is we're not really connecting here as much as we think we are. The little snippy things back and forth.
Maybe that's telling a bigger story as to where we are. Alyssa and I have had this. Where there are times we just sit down and go, something's off. We haven't been mad at one another, per se. We can just tell the little things. We're not connecting the same. We're a little bit sniffier than maybe we should. She snaps at the kids, or, I am not listening to her. I'm paying attention to my phone, whatever it is. And just to be able to say, like, something's off, what's going on here. And a lot of times, that opens up into a great conversation of two weeks ago, this happened. I don't think we ever really worked through this. I think maybe we haven't been in the greatest place toward one another. Without even realizing it, because it seems like everything's good. The little things tell a bigger story, so pay attention to this. And one of my biggest pet peeves. Is putting the marriage on the back burner. And this is to your growth mindset we put on the back burner because, oh, that's fine. You know what? My wife loves me. I love her. That's fine. Let me go ahead and do everything.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: That one's locked in. Right.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: Exactly. And the more that we do that, the less we're paying attention. To the small little things. And what happens is, again, you do deteriorate over time, but you never really caught it, because it was all the small things. If you were paying attention. And locked into my marriage really matters to me. This is one of the most important things in my life, is to lead my family. And for my wife to be in a really good place with me, with our kids, with God. Same for me.
If I'm really locked into it, I'm going to pick up on that almost not perceptible thing that's been taking place.
We've been waking up, and now I'm waking up maybe 30 minutes later, I'm having a tough time getting out of bed. Our bed's not getting made.
Week after week, our bed's not getting made. We were doing it, now we're not. Those things matter. Those things matter that they are telling a much bigger story. Pay attention to the small things. A lot of guys only pay attention to the big things. And then, God forbid, or women as well, when their spouse leaves them. It's like, I don't even know what it. You weren't locked in. You weren't paying attention to the small things that were telling a much bigger story all along the way.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: So I'm going to go ahead and get into my third one because it somewhat ties into. It's a bit of a different branch. Jack, did you want to comment on Joe's before I do that?
[00:42:01] Speaker A: No, go for it.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: Okay. All right. So my third one was find joy in the little things. So kind of the. Joe, you're kind of approaching it from both ends, but kind of from a bit of a negative connotation. Like, hey, if this small thing is a problem, it's going to lead to a bigger problem. My third one is find joy in the little things. Because the little joys that you find in marriage are more fulfilling than anything else the world has to offer. Literally anything else. I mean, you think about what the world tries to sell as somebody who's really happy, somebody who sleeps around, somebody who gets to go and party all the time, somebody who just lives for themselves, makes a lot of money and lives for themselves, comes home to their really expensive place that they live. No marriage, no family. That's what the world tries to sell. It's not fulfilling. Instead, what I mean by the little joys are you could talk about the big joys, the big family vacations, or the big things that you do as a family. Those things are great, don't get me wrong. But it's the little joys that truly make marriage 100% fulfilling and 100% worth it. Rachel and I, we have a tradition. Anytime it's a birthday or something special, we get a bottle of sparkling grape juice. And that's our way that we celebrate together. It's very little. It's nothing crazy, but that's what we do. We had an afternoon the other day. I think it was Sunday afternoon. Weather was really nice. I sat out on the back porch with a drink and a book to read. She sat out on the back porch and was meal planning for the week. That's really small, but we found a lot of joy in that because the kids were napping. It was time we just got to be together and sit and do something like that. You've got inside jokes that would make no one else on planet Earth laugh, but because you two have an inside joke, you find joy in that you start laughing with each other again. It's little things. Find joy in the little things again, somewhat related there to Joe's point, and this is where the nights at home where you have homemade pizza together and watch a movie, really, really special. It doesn't always have to be the going out to eat, which we enjoy as well, but it's the little things. And those are the things that, man, you find so much joy in your marriage. If you take the time to celebrate those little things, we can get again, so caught up in the big joys, the job promotions, the Disney world vacations, the whatever it is. Find joy in day to day life, in the little things, the sparkling grape juice, the really good meal your wife cooked, the time know you got to set out on the back porch and drink coffee and just have a really good conversation.
The drives to church where you talk about XYZ or whatever. Little joys can make marriage so fulfilling. And I think a lot of times we can look past those because we're too busy looking for the big joys, the big rushes, the big dopamine hits, so to speak. Find joy in the little things was my third one.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: Yeah, because when you start losing that, that's where things really go sideways, where day to day becomes a bear. You start noticing the bad instead of noticing the good, kind of what you're pointed towards.
And it's in those where you kind of start thinking, we need the big thing. There's the famous thing of, boy, our marriage is in crisis. Let's have a baby and see if that fixes it.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: That doesn't fix it. Or like you say, oh, a big trip, or the grand gesture. I'm going to buy her the most expensive bouquet of flowers, or going to get this big thing, whatever it may be.
Those things are great as a cherry on top of the little things, like you're saying there. And if the little things have disappeared, the big are never going to replace it.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: Because again, the word I go to is joy. Sorry, Joe. Before you get like, you find joy in those things and a joyful marriage.
Joe said it. To start is one of the most incredible blessings you could ever be blessed with. It's one of the most amazing things God ever created is if you find true joy in your marriage, not happiness, true joy. And that's found in some of those smaller things.
[00:45:37] Speaker C: The sad thing is so many marriages don't have that, and I don't think they ever think they will have it. It's a very adversarial approach. This is why we're passionate about this. This is why we're having this discussion is we cannot emphasize that enough. This is a make or break thing. I've seen so many guys where their careers, so many women where their lives were just completely ruined because the marriage is terrible and because they don't take time and effort, and usually it's one. Sometimes it's both that are not taking time and effort to do it. A lot of times it's both. But there's one person who's just not really getting it and, well, it's fine. We implore you not to take an it's fine approach. We implore you to look at the little things, pay attention to little things, find the little joys. One of my favorite songs from one of our favorite bands is a little bit of everything from Dawes, and it's just a beautiful thing of like, kind of reminds us is a girl in the song as they're prepping for the wedding, of the little things that matter.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:30] Speaker C: And I'm not saying it's super Christmas, I don't think there's any cuss words or anything, but I'm not endorsing everything that the band has ever done. But it's those type of songs. One of my favorite songs makes me cry, know from a Brandon Flower song. That's kind of the idea. At the end of life, he looks back over his life and was like, it was the small things, it was the little things along the way, the way we live life together, and the joys in those moments that made all the difference on the deathbed, that's like, it made it all worth it. And it's just a beautiful song. Those are the type of things that matter in marriages.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:59] Speaker C: It's a small little moments.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:00] Speaker C: You'll look back on the Disney world vacations, you'll look back on the times you got to travel to Europe, and that's fantastic. Good for you. But by and large, first off, you're not going to have those, but maybe once every year, five years, ten years sometimes.
Second off, man, make the most of every single day.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: I was just going to say, if your whole entire marriage is based off of the next vacation the next big thing. And you do miss those things. It's like the people that just got to get to the work week so I can live for the weekend. Man, what a depressing life. What a non fulfilling life. If you're just living for your next big vacation, you're just living for your next again, whatever it is. And so, Joe, that spurred me to think about, like, that's not a very happy, joyful, fulfilling lifestyle at all.
[00:47:42] Speaker C: I've been there and it's not. So, yeah, Jack, get us in at Thurkham.
[00:47:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Surround yourself with people who want you to succeed. And you might look and think, well, nobody wants my marriage to fail. Well, there might be people who don't want you to succeed. People who maybe are in one person's corner over the marriage's corner. And this is something you have to be careful with, with family, with in laws of, that's always going to be their baby girl. That's always going to be mama's boy. I mean, they are going to stick up for theirs. A leave and cleave is a very important thing of, yeah, they might have the best intentions of the world. They might love you to death, but they actually might come in and take a side and put you against each other.
They're in his ear. They're in her ear. Or it might be a friends group where she can go and complain to her friends.
How many women these days are leaving their husbands because the girls around, oh, man, he's just terrible. And we talk about this all the time. He's a toxic, abusive narcissist. And you just got to get out of there, girl, and do what's best for you.
Or the guy goes and complains to his guy friends. And obviously some people are probably familiar with the men going their own way and red pill community and all that of men always lose in marriage. And so it's just not even worth it. And they might have a guy friend who got divorced because it went badly for him and he's in his ear like, yes, it's never worth it, and it's just always going to end badly. And you can very easily be surrounded by people like this, the women yas lighting each other. I love that term because it's so pervasive in our society of you go, girl, you don't need this.
And it ends in disaster. Or guys, again, just sitting around whining about their wives. You know what?
Early on I found Allison, we had had some kind of conflict over something, and she had talked to her sister about it. And it was kind of like, well, hey, that's our business. And she wasn't getting into the details, but just a little bit venting. It's like, you know what? That's helpful. But it was also helpful to know her sister is not going to be like, yeah, you got to get out of there. You got to divorce him or let him know how it is or whatever it was. And it's also nice to talk to your guy friends, not in a gossip way. Like, my wife is terrible, but counsel, wise counsel. Well, what about this?
[00:49:52] Speaker B: Or I'm really struggling with this.
[00:49:54] Speaker A: Yeah, well, she does it. Do you deal with this? Have you come up against this conflict, whether it's your peers, whether it's older guys, whatever, then I've gotten some really good wise counsel from that. But it's from people I know that their advice is never going to be, just cut it off. That's enough. Or you got to do you. But, man, it is very easy to stumble into that. Or like I said, family loyalties. It's very dangerous.
[00:50:16] Speaker C: I love that you brought this point in because it is easy to kind of keep it. A lot of our advice is between the two, there will be other people in your life that will again, potentially make or break the marriage in big moments and such. And, yeah, you want people. I don't have a whole lot to add to that other than surround yourself with people that are pulling for you.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: The most obvious one is there's no man that is going to be the woman's buddy who's going to help her marriage. There's no woman that's going to be the husband's buddy that's going to help the marriage. You got to realize that from the start. You can't have a female confidant if you're the husband. You can't have a male confidant if you're the wife. You know, like, obviously your dad. I mean, something like that. But again, you have to evaluate, is this person telling me to have a better marriage or is this person giving me advice that's going to contribute to the downfall of my marriage?
[00:51:01] Speaker C: Let me also say this real fast. Is leave and cleave is a thing, and this happens more with women than it does with men, where they just run back to mom and dad. Well, he's doing this and he's doing that. A lot of times the parents, if it's not a good relationship with the son in law, is like, are you kidding me? And they get super upset.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: Take them in under their wing, right?
[00:51:20] Speaker C: Exactly. Do the encouraging thing, know everything else. Look, there's comfort to be, there's, there's advice to be found. I guess. Try to turn into one another, not away from one another. When there's issues, like if you're turning toward each other trying to solve it. I'm with Jack. It's really good to get wise counsel. It's really good to go, dad. My dad's given me some fantastic marriage advice of like, what do I do in this situation? I'm struggling, whatever it is, and he comes in and gives me that wise advice. But it's not like beating up on my wife type of thing. Be very careful with the in law situation of going and really complaining about your spouse to them because their job is like, you're my son or you're my daughter. I really want to take you under my wing. That's not healthy. If you are going to them instead of turning in toward your spouse to make it work, that's where it can get dangerous. But I have no problem with wise counsel and just saying, what would you do in this situation? So it's kind of a fine line to walk. But if you find yourself always turning out toward others, maybe consider turning in and fixing the problem.
But if you are trying to and you just need some fresh perspective, do that.
[00:52:21] Speaker B: I don't have much to add. Joe, take us away on your third one.
[00:52:24] Speaker C: All right. Last is fix it. Fox does not always work. And I thought about putting this as my first one, but I figure, well, we can end on this one. Fix it. Fox does not always work. And what I mean by that is we've talked a lot about growth. We've talked a lot about pushing to be better, striving for perfection, striving for greatness in the marriage. Right. I believe in all of those things.
You have to understand that emotions do matter and emotions do play a very key and pivotal role in the relationship. This happens a lot more with men to women, but I have seen with women to men, spouse comes home or the husband comes home and the wife goes, I have had a day from you nowhere. It has not been good, man. This has been horrible in every way. The kids are screaming, the house is just a disaster. I'm really, really struggling in this area. And the guy goes, well, all right, let's just jump in. Let's start cleaning the house.
Not the time. Do we want to get there? Absolutely. Like by the end of the night, hopefully, you guys are cleaning the house together. Initially, a lot of guys want to go to the fix of Fox. I'll make it better for you. Let me go spank the kids. Let me do. No, listen to your wife for a second and just go, I am really sorry. That sounds like a really tough day. I'm sorry. Give her the hug. Meet her emotionally, let her know you care about her, you care about how her day was. You're emotionally taking care of her, and then you go and try to help fix the problem. A lot of guys skip right over the emotional part and they want to jump right into, well, let's just fix it. That's what we do. I'm here to fix it. You're here to listen to her first and to get emotionally connected to her and say, man, that sounds really, really tough. Somebody comes home and I just had a horrible conversation with my best friend. They go, well, I'll stand up for you. Let me just go fix it. That's not what they're looking for. They are looking for you to listen to them and to go, whoa, tell me about it. What happened? They said that to you? Oh, I can't even believe this. How could they say that to you of all people? That's what they're looking for, is somebody to listen to them. They're reaching out for emotional connection. And so many guys, and yes, sometimes women do this as well. Well, let's just fix the problem. No, fixing comes after the emotions have been taken care of. Because if the emotions are never taken care of, they do bottle up. I can go to my husband and he'll fix the problem, but need more than just a fix. If I really need somebody to listen to me emotionally, guess what the guy at work does. This is where I see a lot of infidelity take place, is the husband is Mr. Fix it Fox. Get it done. And that's great to a point until the guy at work is like, oh, I am so sorry to hear that. Wow, that sounds like a really tough day. And they're like, he gets me. He understands me. He takes care of my emotions. Yeah, he's not solving your problems for you the way maybe your husband is, but at least he seems to care emotionally. Husbands, we want to do both goals, but the fix it fox comes after the emotions have been taken care of. So that would be my last piece of something that I've kind of learned is, yeah, I'm more of a fixit fox than anybody. Man. Again, growth. Yeah, let's do it. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Pump the brakes for a second until the emotions have been taken care of and listened to and processed.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: That's definitely an area of growth for me because so much of my life, at least I structure it, but also my job is based on production being productive. What's productive? What's productive. And so, yeah, I've fallen victim to that as well of like wife comes to me with a problem. Well, what's the most productive thing we can do? Well, obviously fix it. Let's figure this out. That's productive. Not realizing that the most productive thing in that moment is to do as you're saying, set the phone down, put your solution minded brain, set that aside for. Turn that section off for a second and just listen. Because we're wired that way.
[00:55:54] Speaker C: As guys, we're wired that way.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: Right.
[00:55:56] Speaker B: But she wants to share that with the person that she's closest to.
[00:56:00] Speaker C: Right.
[00:56:00] Speaker B: Which should be you, obviously. If it's somebody else, you got a bigger problem, but it should be you. And so don't waste that privilege that you have to be the person that she wants to share it most with. Don't waste that by, again, only going to the solution or only going to fixing it. To your point, Joe, that needs to come later. But, yeah, that's definitely a big area of growth for me. If Rachel is listening, she will probably back that up and echo that.
But yeah, I think that's a really good one. Jack, did you have any thoughts?
[00:56:25] Speaker A: Yeah, one I had kind of on the cutting room floor. Just as simple as is the golden rule, do unto others and this is that. And it's not do unto others what you want them to do to you. It's if you were in their shoes, like the consideration that you want. And that's a hard thing because you want to do as you would want done to you. You got to think next level on that. And yeah, she doesn't want you to just solve the problem, and he doesn't want you to do both. Spouses have to train their minds in this direction. But I mean, that's what the golden rule calls you to do.
[00:56:55] Speaker C: And guys can act like this isn't a big deal, like, oh, well, we are just solution folks. No, because if you came home after having a really tough day from work and your wife goes, well, tomorrow, we're to look to do this and this and this. Is that really what you're looking for? Or are you looking for somebody just to vent to and for somebody to go, I'm really sorry, that's a tough day. That's a really tough day. Let's have some fun tonight. Let's get your mind off of what's going on. That may be the solution, but you're looking for somebody to not just tell you how you're going to live your life tomorrow so as to structure it better. You're looking for somebody just to listen so guys can act like we're Mr. Solution focused all the time. And that's just not true. Everybody has emotions and they do matter. And if you don't get the emotional part of the marriage right, it is a make or break thing and your wife will burn out. You have to take care of her emotions. And for the wives, a lot of wives have kind of been stunted emotionally and they want to do the same thing of like, well, let's just logic. Are we through it? No. Your husband has emotions, too. Well, he's a guy. He'll appreciate it. No, he needs you to step up emotionally for him as well. So this goes both ways.
[00:57:49] Speaker B: That's a really great point. I'm going to let somebody else wrap because I'm the one that introed it, but I appreciate you guys bringing these again. I'll say what I said to start, man, we want christian marriages. We want the world to look at christian marriages and see, whoa, that is different. That is something that's special. That's two people working together, that are growing together, that are really making their marriage the best that it can be in the sight of God.
I would say that's what all three of us are trying to do. That's what we want Christians to do as well. And so if you're listening and you're like, man, maybe you disagree with something, we'd love to hear about it. We'd love to hear. As we started with, hey, what are some things you've learned? Maybe you've been married 15 years and you've learned some different things. Even if you disagree, those are things we want to hear. But these are just the things that we, again, been married five years, seven years. These are things that we've learned that if you are listening and you're like, man, that's kind of new to me. We do find them helpful. We do think these are things that will hopefully grow your marriage, improve your marriage, and maybe strengthen your marriage is the best way to put it. And so, yeah, I've enjoyed this one, guys. Any closing thoughts?
[00:58:48] Speaker A: Let me give the rundown real quick. So will had never under communicate, share a growth mindset, find joy in the little things Joe had, be secure in your self esteem, little things tell a much better. Did you say better story or bigger?
[00:58:59] Speaker C: Bigger story.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: Bigger. Thank you. I don't know why I said better. Bigger story and fix it. Fox doesn't always work. And then I had streamline your conflict men set the tone and surround yourself with people who want you to succeed. We're going to put those out on our Facebook in the quote images and we'd love to hear your lessons, things that you've learned, just tips that you've picked up along the way. Because again, hopefully your marriages have a growth mindset. Hopefully it is an improved one over what it was day one. And just that wisdom that you have to share, we would love to hear.
And if you're a single person, you're somebody looking to get married, maybe engaged or whatever, hopefully these are things that will bless you.
[00:59:36] Speaker B: Last thing I'll say. And then Joe, you wrap us up. If you're a focus plus subscriber, give your questions, give your comments, but also include what's your favorite piece of advice that we covered on this episode?
[00:59:47] Speaker C: We've been married for seven years. There are going to be people that subscribe that have probably been married for 25, 30, 40 years.
Yeah. You know, a lot more than us. And we do crave that knowledge. We want to know we could really make this something that's very special in terms of maybe turning into a book, whatever it is down the line of like, what is your advice? We want to know the best marriages in the church. Those that have subscribed, those that haven't subscribed, please let us know. We could collect those. I think that's, we're just always looking for advice, even to just help our own marriages grow. So we appreciate you listening. We appreciate you tuning in. This is going to make for a great deep end. I'm excited about this one. But anyway, we are going to wrap it up here and we will talk to you again next week. Thanks for listening.
